When the episode starts with four people laughing and wiping tears from their eyes, you know it’s going to be a good one.
Two first cousins who are both third-generation entrepreneurs, Carrie and Kate have a variety business experience, but their core passion is Early Childhood Education. They have both owned and operated facilities, and they leveraged up to training other people how to run their own. They’ve been doing that for over 20 years.
They’re both authors and have both owned businesses in the publishing industry. As we publish this episode, their 6th book together, titled Don’t Chase the Monkey, is available on Amazon and will be publicly launched very soon. (Link below)
Carrie decided to own a childcare facility when she was in childcare herself. Kate decided to start one after she became a parent. Eventually , they joined forces.
There are so many family connections and people in the family working for one another in their extended family that it is a little confusing. What is clear is how much they know about what works and what doesn’t when family members work together.
Join us in this entertaining and educational discussion and meet these dynamic women.
Links to more about Kate and Carrie:
00:00 Introduction to Kate and Carrie
00:53 Early Entrepreneurial Ventures
02:05 Family Influence and Business Background
04:36 Diving into Childcare
10:23 Challenges of Working with Family
19:16 Expanding Texas Director
21:12 Reflecting on Business Success and Future Plans
22:31 Advice for Small Family Business Owners
24:11 Balancing Family and Business Relationships
25:40 The Importance of Delegation and Hiring Experts
27:01 Mindset Shifts for Business Growth
28:16 Navigating Family Dynamics in Business
37:38 The Value of Peer Support and Venting
38:46 Planning for Personal and Business Future
42:06 Promoting New Books and Final Thoughts
Welcome to another episode of Celebrating Small Family Businesses.
Speaker:Today we are celebrating Kate Woodward Young and Carrie Casey of TexasDirector.
Speaker:org.
Speaker:Good morning, ladies.
Speaker:Good morning.
Speaker:John and Connie.
Speaker:We're all sitting here just about wiping tears out of our eyes
Speaker:because we've been laughing so hard in our pre show conversation.
Speaker:You don't want to know about that.
Speaker:Yeah, we're, that's a whole different podcast.
Speaker:But, you guys have been, you're, so you're cousins, you know,
Speaker:the family aspect right away.
Speaker:You're first cousins, and you've been working together in the child
Speaker:care industry, both owning child care facilities and, and now for
Speaker:decades advising people in that industry how to run efficiently.
Speaker:Is that accurate?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Um,
Speaker:And we've actually...
Speaker:Go ahead, Carrie.
Speaker:I was going to say this is our second business we've had together.
Speaker:Um, well, unless you count the one that we started when we were kids,
Speaker:which was called Camp Frederick.
Speaker:Oh, tell.
Speaker:Oh, we were, we were Girl Scouts and we love to go to a conference.
Speaker:Those aren't the same thing, but I got a whole bunch of swag
Speaker:from a printing conference.
Speaker:We got together over the summer and we came up with a whole bunch of
Speaker:badges you could earn and stuff like that using the office supplies
Speaker:I got from the printing convention.
Speaker:So that was our first enterprise together was camp Frederick.
Speaker:Uh,
Speaker:And I hope there were some fun badges.
Speaker:there were, there were, Identifying unidentified animals
Speaker:was one of the badges, um.
Speaker:Love that.
Speaker:Uh,
Speaker:That is so in line with the Girl Scout mission, you know, the, the
Speaker:leadership and the creativity.
Speaker:You're just immediately in, in leadership and in Girl Scouts.
Speaker:That's great.
Speaker:Well and we were both Girl Scouts.
Speaker:Our kids were Girl Scouts.
Speaker:We both sold...
Speaker:we had a parallel path when it came to Girl Scout cookies.
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:We definitely have entrepreneurship in our blood.
Speaker:We are third generation entrepreneurs on both sides so we are, uh, excited to just
Speaker:continue to share that passion with pretty much anybody and with our own children.
Speaker:So,
Speaker:Good.
Speaker:So that, that entrepreneurship led from, I think your, your grandfather, you,
Speaker:you had worked with your grandfather at some point, is that right?
Speaker:I
Speaker:worked with my grandfather at some point,
Speaker:ah, that's what I,
Speaker:and that was at a Christmas tree farm.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:And then we both worked with our mothers.
Speaker:Um, I also worked with my dad.
Speaker:Um, my dad took the contractor route, not strictly entrepreneurial.
Speaker:He was a contractor.
Speaker:Um, he wrote technical manuals, so he worked for everybody from Apple to
Speaker:Dell, to, IBM, Gulf Western, like all kinds of companies over the years.
Speaker:And I was his back office for a while.
Speaker:Um,
Speaker:Very cool!
Speaker:And yeah,
Speaker:And we also worked for other cousins or with other cousins
Speaker:and our spouses worked with.
Speaker:So my spouse worked with Carrie, Carrie's spouse worked with
Speaker:me and different businesses.
Speaker:So I had a publishing business
Speaker:and, uh, yeah, so we got everybody working together somehow.
Speaker:So when it's time for me to write my book about family businesses, I'm going
Speaker:to be calling you guys for research.
Speaker:absolutely.
Speaker:Oh my goodness.
Speaker:So much depth of experience there.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Kate used to have a publishing company and now I have a different publishing
Speaker:company because I work faster than the traditional publishing company.
Speaker:And the idea of waiting two years after I wrote something for it to hit
Speaker:the shelves was like, no, thank you.
Speaker:I can't handle that much lag time.
Speaker:I will figure out how to, how to create my own publishing company.
Speaker:Um, I don't do all of the work.
Speaker:I, You know, I function as a CEO in that company and other people do the
Speaker:work and yay me I can get stuff out in a week if I need to because I got a bee
Speaker:in my bonnet
Speaker:to write something.
Speaker:Whoa.
Speaker:See, this is where I'm saying with our podcast, we, you know, something
Speaker:just comes and we plan something and then something like that comes
Speaker:up and like we could spend the whole time talking about that.
Speaker:We're not to
Speaker:That's amazing.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:No we're not.
Speaker:Because how did you get in the child care business?
Speaker:Um,
Speaker:We had children or that was mine.
Speaker:I had children.
Speaker:Carrie was a child,
Speaker:yeah, I decided when I was a child in childcare that when I grew up I was
Speaker:going to have a childcare business because my mom was, uh, an 80 to 120
Speaker:hour a week entrepreneur when I was born.
Speaker:Um, and so she didn't have a huge amount of time for me, but
Speaker:the people in childcare did.
Speaker:And so I thought that that was the best place in the world because
Speaker:people paid attention to me.
Speaker:There you go.
Speaker:And so I decided I would have a center when I grew up.
Speaker:I see.
Speaker:So you had a really, you had an experience in a well run child
Speaker:care center that gave you a really good role model to start with.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:And, um, between that and then having a mom who, taught me a whole
Speaker:bunch about business by osmosis.
Speaker:Um, it made it such that I was able to open my first program at 21.
Speaker:And my first center at, what was I, 24, I think, when I
Speaker:opened my first licensed center.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:Now what's the difference between a program and a center?
Speaker:So home based programs are, you know, in your house, you have a room or a couple of
Speaker:rooms set aside for your cottage industry.
Speaker:In Texas they're called registered family homes, but that's not
Speaker:what they're called everywhere.
Speaker:But home based care is usually for, like, 6 or fewer kids.
Speaker:And then a center can be, you know, 400 children.
Speaker:I never had 1 that that was that big because 400 children is a lot!
Speaker:, but the hundred,
Speaker:had, but you did have four, you did have four centers and you
Speaker:always had multiple locations.
Speaker:So,
Speaker:yes.
Speaker:um,
Speaker:But one building with
Speaker:Okay, Kate, what about you?
Speaker:What is your, oh,
Speaker:Having
Speaker:400 kids
Speaker:between
Speaker:yeah,
Speaker:multiple locations is fine.
Speaker:I got into child care when I had children, so my 1st son was born and prior to him
Speaker:being born, I was actually a certified business analyst with the SBA at a local
Speaker:small business development center in Ohio and so I knew I wanted to stay at home.
Speaker:But I also needed a revenue source.
Speaker:And so I had infants and then after a couple of years of running that
Speaker:business as a business, the Ohio small business development center asked
Speaker:me to be part of a consulting team that trained other registered family
Speaker:homes, how to run their business, like a business around the state of Ohio.
Speaker:Now you have to remember that all of this happened pre-social media and
Speaker:Carrie and I didn't necessarily know that we were on these parallel paths.
Speaker:Because while our mothers, our sisters, they do not, they did not get along.
Speaker:They were, you know, were five siblings and each of them had three siblings
Speaker:they liked better than each other
Speaker:um They they were very much oil and water growing up.
Speaker:And so just because my mom knew what I was doing and her mom knew what she
Speaker:was doing, they were not having weekly phone calls between the two of them.
Speaker:Um, and my grandmother, I don't think really, our grandmother didn't really
Speaker:know what either one of us was doing.
Speaker:She was very confused.
Speaker:I was like, they're doing what?
Speaker:They're taking other people's who?
Speaker:I don't get it.
Speaker:And so she didn't make that connection for our moms until Kate moved to
Speaker:Texas because she didn't want her son to not have cousins around,
Speaker:like Kate is an only child, and our parents lived thousands of miles away.
Speaker:So, now her,
Speaker:so, so.
Speaker:her kids have,
Speaker:when I moved to Texas, yeah, so when I moved to Texas, Carrie and I quickly
Speaker:realized the, um, similarities.
Speaker:We started training together.
Speaker:Literally as soon as I got here, uh, when I moved here, I went to work
Speaker:for the women's business development center, the Texas center for women's
Speaker:business enterprise and you know, we fit, we worked well together.
Speaker:We started a substitute service.
Speaker:Uh, we learned a lot about ourselves in our late 20s.
Speaker:Um, like, I'm not the person you call on a Thursday night and
Speaker:again, we didn't have voicemail.
Speaker:We didn't have other ways of communication.
Speaker:We had a, we had a pager.
Speaker:But they had to call me.
Speaker:And so Thursday night when you're drunk and you need a substitute for
Speaker:Friday morning, I quickly discovered I'm not the person you call.
Speaker:so that that venture, we did a great job, like, so such a great
Speaker:job that people would hire our substitutes and so we did too good
Speaker:of a job hiring and training staff.
Speaker:Um, but we didn't learn the, if you hire our people, this is,
Speaker:you're going to pay us money.
Speaker:Like we didn't learn that.
Speaker:And we definitely learned our strengths and weaknesses and we continued
Speaker:to work with and for each other.
Speaker:I actually worked for Carrie at one point in time as a
Speaker:director of one of her programs.
Speaker:And that was after her husband worked for me, at my publishing firm.
Speaker:And I think actually did my husband go to work?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:My husband actually went to work for you before I went to work for you.
Speaker:yes, yes.
Speaker:Time, it's confusing.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:I don't even know how to unravel all this.
Speaker:Our normal first question, next question is, What do you
Speaker:love about working with family?
Speaker:And it's like, wow.
Speaker:You kind of,
Speaker:I think it'd be a shorter list to tell you what I don't like and it's
Speaker:Go for it.
Speaker:I mean, and I have now worked together for 25 years.
Speaker:And so I obviously like working with Carrie.
Speaker:Um, we both would have relatives and may even be the same relative that
Speaker:we we learned an awful lot about the type of people we would not work with
Speaker:mm hmm.
Speaker:in our family.
Speaker:Yeah, I have are three members of my family that i've worked with that.
Speaker:I will never work with again because I want to continue to have a good positive
Speaker:family relationship with and they were We could not together Keep that
Speaker:those boundaries clear of this is when
Speaker:Mm hmm.
Speaker:I'm wearing my working hat and this is when i'm wearing my family hat And
Speaker:if they can't keep those boundaries clear, then you can't work with them
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:True.
Speaker:True.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And that's a, that's, you know, it's a communication issue, it's a, it might
Speaker:be a parenting issue from their past, you know, there's so many things that
Speaker:come into that, but that's, that's so key that you have to make that
Speaker:choice, or there, there are times when you have to make that choice.
Speaker:Which relationship am I going to preserve?
Speaker:Yeah, and, you know, like, for instance, one of them is one of my parents siblings,
Speaker:so we'll just leave that nice and vague in case they happen to listen to the episode,
Speaker:um, but one of my parents siblings could not stop seeing me as an adolescent girl,
Speaker:That happens.
Speaker:if they continue to see me as an adolescent girl, then any of the
Speaker:ideas I come up with Are the ideas of an adolescent girl and that's just
Speaker:not going to work if we're trying to have a business relationship.
Speaker:So it
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Right,
Speaker:to be able to have a professional working relationship and it's not
Speaker:that I'm not up to the task or that they're not up to the task.
Speaker:They just can't make that mental shift from adolescence to mature
Speaker:adult with lots of good ideas.
Speaker:And I know
Speaker:and there's a lot more to that than just having a conversation.
Speaker:I mean, you can talk about it, and they can say, Yes, yes, I'll change,
Speaker:I'll do that, but if they're not gonna do the thing, you know, the work,
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:you know, change that
Speaker:I've worked
Speaker:over time.
Speaker:with my mother in three different businesses that she's had over the years.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:In the first one, I was a child.
Speaker:And she treated me like a child.
Speaker:I mean, this sounds like...
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:This is a bible verse in my head Um, and then we put away childish things and then
Speaker:I worked with her when I was in my early 20's to get enough money to open my school
Speaker:and she treated me like a young adult who hasn't been in the workforce for 10 years.
Speaker:And then the third time we worked together,
Speaker:it was in real estate development and my mother had never worked in an industry
Speaker:that had a whole lot of government oversight, which is all child care is
Speaker:it is like so much government oversight.
Speaker:And so I took the role of doing those things.
Speaker:And my mother's perceptions of me as an adult changed radically because there was
Speaker:this thing that she couldn't do it all.
Speaker:I did it like I was a fish swimming in water.
Speaker:You know, not a problem.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So every time we have a conversation, you have to send an email confirming what was
Speaker:said in the conversation to that person.
Speaker:And if possible, also their supervisor And she was like, why?
Speaker:Why?
Speaker:I was like, because they will forget what they said and then try to get
Speaker:cite you for something that they told you that you were supposed to do.
Speaker:And she was like, people wouldn't do that.
Speaker:And I was like.
Speaker:Yes, they will, and it's not necessarily malicious, but they
Speaker:don't remember the conversation.
Speaker:And if you've sent the email, you can go, as per our email of
Speaker:March 5th, this is what we're doing, and you signed off on it.
Speaker:So, like, I've gone through all three phases with one person in my
Speaker:family it's amazing the difference in our relationship since we did
Speaker:the real estate development because now she sees us as completely equal.
Speaker:She may have more knowledge in one area, but she knows that I've
Speaker:got more knowledge in others.
Speaker:So it's, if you've worked with a family member and it didn't
Speaker:work out, wait, come back to it.
Speaker:Try it again.
Speaker:Cause.
Speaker:You've got shortcuts in your conversation when you've known
Speaker:somebody for, I don't know, 50 years.
Speaker:Just makes it easier.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:So
Speaker:Yep, oh man.
Speaker:been really lucky that we've had only spouses, but in laws who've
Speaker:supported our business endeavors.
Speaker:So whether it was my know, my first husband or
Speaker:gonna
Speaker:sound like a serial spouse, but but anyway, um, and so that was with my first
Speaker:husband, Carrie's husband and his family.
Speaker:They've all been very supportive.
Speaker:And I think that that is how we were able to continue to be
Speaker:entrepreneurs and run our businesses.
Speaker:But, you know, we've got cousins and 2nd cousins and our moms have cousins
Speaker:that have all been entrepreneurs.
Speaker:So it's
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:also we're not like the redheaded stepchild at a family reunion, right?
Speaker:We really everybody kind of understands.
Speaker:We don't sit around and talk business.
Speaker:there is a level of understanding.
Speaker:And sometimes even though we may not have worked with somebody,
Speaker:somebody may have been an investor.
Speaker:So like Carrie's mom and my grandmother were both investors
Speaker:in the publishing company that I bought into when I moved to Texas.
Speaker:So I didn't really, I didn't work with them, but I was accountable to them.
Speaker:Um, and there were definitely provisions that came with those investments.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Um,
Speaker:Well, and that's a, that's a little bit different relationship and that, you
Speaker:know, that a lot of small businesses don't, , have many people in the
Speaker:family that are part owners and yet don't work in the business, but as
Speaker:family enterprises grow, that becomes a much bigger part of the puzzle.
Speaker:And that's where there's so much negotiation and and communication
Speaker:and understanding that has to happen because those people's wishes have
Speaker:to be taken into account and and there has to be meetings and all that
Speaker:so I'm so glad you brought that up.
Speaker:well, and the real estate project that Carrie and her mom were part of were
Speaker:actually with a whole other family unit.
Speaker:So it was them.
Speaker:And then another family unit of siblings, a spouse, um, of of a
Speaker:business partner who passed away.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:You know, he and he was the visual one and everybody else kind of was in the back and
Speaker:so it was like Carrie and my aunt and then like his brother, his sister, his wife
Speaker:Oh my
Speaker:a whole other version of
Speaker:The wife
Speaker:to manipulate, you know, how
Speaker:wasn't involved until he died, and she didn't know anything
Speaker:about business, so that was fun.
Speaker:Um, when she became a co general partner and had no business background,
Speaker:Yes
Speaker:or
Speaker:another
Speaker:background.
Speaker:Yes, that's a whole another flavor there that a property manager we
Speaker:know calls them accidental landlords.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:You know, but you know, accidental business owners, same way, you know,
Speaker:husband passes away and all of a sudden the wife's, You know, in
Speaker:business with maybe a partner or other business partners, and oh my goodness.
Speaker:And there's planning that can take place ahead of that if it's done.
Speaker:Have you We've been talking to our lawyer?
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:Oh my goodness.
Speaker:We got that homework assignment from our attorney of, you need to
Speaker:put all this in your paperwork.
Speaker:And we're like, nah, we don't.
Speaker:she's
Speaker:Yeah, you do.
Speaker:do.
Speaker:I actually heard that from an investment advisor.
Speaker:He was talking about, you know, a buy-sell agreement, how important it is to have
Speaker:a buy-sell agreement for exactly that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And we
Speaker:And some insurance that
Speaker:people to
Speaker:pays for the buyout.
Speaker:We advise people to do it all the time.
Speaker:Does that mean that we had it in place for this business of ours?
Speaker:No, but we've had it for other businesses each of us have had,
Speaker:just not the one with our cousin.
Speaker:So
Speaker:Well, and now we're so now Texas director is actually growing and we
Speaker:are launching a Um, a much larger scale version of our business.
Speaker:And so we're really excited about the, about the growth and what's
Speaker:happening over the next two years.
Speaker:And so we've now gone from.
Speaker:What you would call absolutely a small business, but in two years, you're
Speaker:not going to put us in that category.
Speaker:Um, and we're excited about it.
Speaker:I think
Speaker:So is this, um, is this franchising?
Speaker:similar concept.
Speaker:So we're going to go with licensing.
Speaker:Uh huh.
Speaker:excited about opportunities and programs we've got coming up, , and
Speaker:wonderful.
Speaker:all dovetails into things like our podcast and books and, and public speaking
Speaker:and all those other things that we do.
Speaker:So we're really excited about moving that forward.
Speaker:So people in other states.
Speaker:That was one of the questions I wanted to ask.
Speaker:Is Texas Director just, do you just serve people in Texas?
Speaker:Or do you, are you nationwide or are you expanding?
Speaker:So, I
Speaker:Our podcast serves people on a national level, Childcare Conversations with
Speaker:Kate and Carrie, shameless plug.
Speaker:And our books of course, serve people in the United States and internationally.
Speaker:And we had people coming to us going, Hey, how do we get your training?
Speaker:And we were like, let's think about that.
Speaker:and so we, I've been in the franchising side of, been a franchisor, been part
Speaker:of a company where I was a franchisor.
Speaker:And, um, then we also did the company run shops and I was like, I need
Speaker:something in between these two.
Speaker:Um, that's not company run shops and it isn't franchising and
Speaker:licensing is that in between.
Speaker:I see.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Very cool.
Speaker:we're really excited about where that's headed.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:We have a proven model.
Speaker:We've had our business model online since 2005.
Speaker:This is a product that we've had online for 19 years, very successful.
Speaker:And, and very much part time.
Speaker:It was truly the side hustle before side hustles were a thing.
Speaker:Oh.
Speaker:most of the time, one or both of us had a full time gig as well as Texas Director.
Speaker:And so we're really excited about a, now that we are empty nesters, um, In
Speaker:theory and um, or at least in schedule.
Speaker:I will say it that way.
Speaker:I am an empty nester in schedule Half of them well more than half still live
Speaker:here but I don't have to manage what they do anyway Carrie and I are able
Speaker:and excited about creating our future our retirement plan and serving even
Speaker:more child care directors, business owners, teachers and children.
Speaker:As of right now, we've already served over a million children; impacted more
Speaker:than a million children and directors and owners through the trainings
Speaker:we've provided in the last 23 years.
Speaker:Well, wow.
Speaker:That yeah.
Speaker:So that one of my questions, our questions we'd love to ask is, you know, is what
Speaker:would be a piece of advice that would, you would give other small family
Speaker:business owners from your experience and you've got so much and you're
Speaker:in the business of providing advice.
Speaker:So lay it on us,
Speaker:You've got to have an exit strategy.
Speaker:And you should probably have two.
Speaker:One for if the other members of your family want to continue on
Speaker:after you are like, I'm done, thank you, I'm gonna go to Tahiti.
Speaker:Um, so one is if your children or, you know, siblings, whoever
Speaker:is involved, want to continue on.
Speaker:And then another one,
Speaker:I wanted to, I ran away to Orlando.
Speaker:Yeah, Kate quit and went to Orlando and I bought her out.
Speaker:And so that was her exit strategy.
Speaker:And then she came back and she wanted back in as if, but so we made that happen.
Speaker:But if your family members don't want the business, you're no longer
Speaker:involved because for some people Part of the joy of working in that family
Speaker:business is that family connection?
Speaker:And if you're not there anymore don't want it So you need to have two versions
Speaker:of an exit strategy one for how to sell it to an unknown third party and one how
Speaker:to turn it over to The next generation or the sibling or or whatever so
Speaker:internal succession kind of.
Speaker:That's brilliant.
Speaker:I've never heard that said before and I love it.
Speaker:I love it.
Speaker:Well, I would actually add two things to that too, which is remember to have
Speaker:time to keep that family relationship.
Speaker:What do I mean by that?
Speaker:So our moms think that Carrie and I spend all this time together, which we do, but
Speaker:we generally are pretty business focused.
Speaker:And so there are times where I really don't know what's going on in
Speaker:Carrie's personal life and vice versa.
Speaker:And it's hard to try to explain that to other people who are like, but
Speaker:you spend all this time together.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But we're working, you know, you know, we're, we're launching a book, we're,
Speaker:we're doing this, we're doing that.
Speaker:So although we might spend 30 hours a week on the phone or in meetings
Speaker:or, or interviews or whatever, that's not 30 hours a week hanging out.
Speaker:So I think that's really important.
Speaker:And then for us also, I think there's been, a struggle with the whole mind shift
Speaker:and the mindset of growing a business.
Speaker:As a small business, I think that's one of the things that we are learning right
Speaker:now as we transition to both being full time and growing the business is there
Speaker:is that mind shift of not being a small business that, um, sometimes you need to
Speaker:find a coach or a consultant or somebody to hold your hand through that process.
Speaker:And we're all about finding team members.
Speaker:Yeah, we do not try to do this on our own.
Speaker:We have coaches.
Speaker:We have partners.
Speaker:We have consultants.
Speaker:We hire it done.
Speaker:That we definitely learned to I think Carrie, over the years is stop
Speaker:trying to be the jack of all trades.
Speaker:yeah
Speaker:and recognize when you're going to save a lot of time and money by hiring
Speaker:a professional who can do in an hour if you can do it and it's going to
Speaker:take you eight hours to get it done, but I can do it Where it would have
Speaker:been better to spend the 200 bucks for somebody who can get it done in an hour.
Speaker:Yeah, I mean I think that's one of those things that I learned from,
Speaker:you know, your virtual coaches, the people on podcasts or whatever.
Speaker:So, I don't remember if it was Russell Brunson or Dean Graziosi, but
Speaker:one of them said, you come up with a new problem, think who, not how.
Speaker:Who can solve this problem, not how do I solve this problem?
Speaker:Who can solve it?
Speaker:Because, That's one of the things that having a little bit of flexibility
Speaker:in your budget allows Is for you to go who can solve this as opposed to
Speaker:spending your time, which is a non renewable resource Figuring it out
Speaker:where money is a renewable resource.
Speaker:You can go get more of that.
Speaker:You can't go get more time
Speaker:Could have been either one of them because they probably
Speaker:learned from each other but yes
Speaker:They're in a mastermind together.
Speaker:That and that is I want to say that is the the one of the really essential things
Speaker:that you were talking about kate about the the mind shift from running a business to
Speaker:i'm changing your words a tiny bit but, running a business to growing a business.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:And and that that you do have to think differently and
Speaker:that's what we're all about.
Speaker:So I love that this came up Yeah, because what got you this point is not
Speaker:going to get you to the next point.
Speaker:And and there's different levels of thinking that have to happen and mostly
Speaker:it's simplification so that That you know who and who can do this instead
Speaker:of me and the willingness to do that.
Speaker:I think that's where a lot of small businesses get hung In in
Speaker:their in trying to grow is that that the founder can't let go.
Speaker:You know, nobody can do it like I can.
Speaker:We had that.
Speaker:And the delegation.
Speaker:and
Speaker:Yeah, we're struggling with that right now as far as growing and staying in
Speaker:our lanes because we both have done Um You know, for over half of the life of
Speaker:the business, I was the primary person and then Carrie was the primary person.
Speaker:And so now we're like, well, what do you like to do?
Speaker:There we go.
Speaker:do, how do, how do we stay in the lanes of
Speaker:Mm hmm.
Speaker:we're good at?
Speaker:And we were really excited.
Speaker:We, I love it when Carrie listens to podcasts and then we have
Speaker:meetings and people go, well, why don't you just have so and so?
Speaker:And then we like brought in so and so and we're like, Oh, yeah, we
Speaker:were never going to get to where we wanted to without killing each other
Speaker:without bringing in so and so, right?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:But now it's the "What
Speaker:exactly is my lane and do I always have to stay here?"
Speaker:Can I come over here and play?
Speaker:The answer's no stay out of my lane
Speaker:Or maybe find a way to play, play in that, in another aspect, you know,
Speaker:experimental or smaller where it's not impacting the main flow of the business.
Speaker:I mean we do
Speaker:things together still we haven't um, we're not yet to the point where it
Speaker:really is Um From a time standpoint.
Speaker:No, you're, you're 40 plus hours need to be in your lane.
Speaker:Um, we're, we still have, and we're still teaching the others how to, like,
Speaker:Well, and know
Speaker:to
Speaker:their do their job.
Speaker:Take the the Apple example, right?
Speaker:The two Steve's Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs still had meetings Even once it
Speaker:became very clear That was was in charge of actually doing things and Steve was in
Speaker:charge of thinking up things but because they knew how to brainstorm off of each
Speaker:other when they would get stuck in their area they could come together and Since
Speaker:they'd both done both parts You They brainstormed really well together and
Speaker:I think that's one of the things that family businesses have a leg up on any
Speaker:other kind of business because you already know how to brainstorm well together.
Speaker:You may have been brainstorming where are we going to eat on Sunday, but
Speaker:hmm.
Speaker:been brainstorming for a long time together and.
Speaker:Skill transfers into the business arena.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Well said.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Because we start negotiations early, don't we?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:know, who's bringing what to Christmas dinner?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:We're talking about,
Speaker:I'm only making that sound because of the four kids.
Speaker:I feel like that's all I've done.
Speaker:Um, and I got, I got one that's way better at it than, than the rest of us.
Speaker:And, and, um, Carrie has a sibling who, um, I think he thinks
Speaker:that's all he was born to do.
Speaker:so.
Speaker:Lots of remembering of family conversations
Speaker:Mm hmm.
Speaker:decades of, you know, versions of my children, her children,
Speaker:siblings, cousins, you know, trying to out negotiate each other.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:fun.
Speaker:So fun.
Speaker:Oh.
Speaker:Wow, we've got lots to talk about.
Speaker:We definitely can offer some ideas about some of those shifts.
Speaker:And I love what you said, , it's more efficient to hire it out to, uh, somebody
Speaker:that can do it now, or instead of spending eight hours doing it, however,
Speaker:it's also really effective if you've
Speaker:done it at least once, because then you can supervise that person that you're
Speaker:hiring and they can't pull the wool over your eyes with a bunch of stuff.
Speaker:yeah, need to know how to supervise it.
Speaker:And so sometimes I hire it done and then I have them explain it all to me the way
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:it.
Speaker:And then I do additional research.
Speaker:So sometimes
Speaker:Smart.
Speaker:to get somebody in there to get it done today.
Speaker:And then you can come back in and go, okay, okay.
Speaker:How do we do this going forward?
Speaker:So
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And how to tweak it.
Speaker:Well also with that, what's really great is , just because you have somebody
Speaker:who's really good doesn't mean it's the only person and that sometimes it's
Speaker:worth because so many new tools, right?
Speaker:Especially when you start thinking about technology or anything that's
Speaker:technology based, whether it's internal systems, external systems,
Speaker:there's constantly new tools.
Speaker:So, even though you might have somebody who's really good and who
Speaker:appears to be really efficient.
Speaker:There now be maybe tools that can do their job that maybe they don't even know.
Speaker:I think that that's why it's, it's worth definitely doing those check ins
Speaker:on business systems, business software, um, and, and meeting with different
Speaker:people when time allows, you've got to, you got to do the, you got to work in
Speaker:the business and work on the business.
Speaker:Um, you can't, you know, you got to pay some attention to that stuff,
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:always be looking for new things.
Speaker:I mean, I think all of this also reflects back on what we were talking about the,
Speaker:the accidental landlord, the accidental business owner, um, that's part of why we
Speaker:wrote the book that just came out from O.
Speaker:S.
Speaker:H.
Speaker:Asterix I.
Speaker:T.
Speaker:to I got this.
Speaker:don't know if we're allowed to curse, so we won't.
Speaker:Um,
Speaker:I think you can.
Speaker:okay.
Speaker:So
Speaker:We're adults.
Speaker:got this,
Speaker:Because if you are
Speaker:an oops, My parent passed away.
Speaker:My partner, we got, you know, there was a divorce, whatever.
Speaker:And you're now a business owner and hadn't actually planned to be one,
Speaker:having a book that addresses some of those issues of that was not the
Speaker:plan or, Oh, this is a great idea.
Speaker:I'm going to start a business and it's going to be wonderful and
Speaker:da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da.
Speaker:And you're full force with the enthusiasm.
Speaker:And then you're like, four months in and you're like, what did I do?
Speaker:ha ha.
Speaker:Ah.
Speaker:It doesn't mean that men can't read the book.
Speaker:Um, but a lot of our stories and situations are female entrepreneur
Speaker:based for those women who had like, maybe they were a stay at
Speaker:home mom with a side hustle y thing, and then the husband was laid off.
Speaker:so we've got all kinds of situations in the book to kind of
Speaker:illustrate what we were thinking.
Speaker:Uh, when we wrote those chapters.
Speaker:And we're really excited because that book is just a wonderful stepping stone
Speaker:from our very 1st book that we wrote that that was translated into Spanish.
Speaker:And then within the next week or so, we have
Speaker:Book number 6 coming out that we've co authored and that book
Speaker:is about don't chasing monkeys.
Speaker:And so it's great for family business owners and people who
Speaker:have to figure out that boundary.
Speaker:Maybe you're a person who doesn't who's...
Speaker:hasn't quite figured out the whole delegating process, and
Speaker:you really want to help people.
Speaker:And so sometimes, you know, you help them and they haven't actually asked for it.
Speaker:And so that's kind of the premise of Don't Chase the Monkey.
Speaker:yeah, I think, know, you, if, if you think about the farm analogy, right?
Speaker:Um, so you're working on a farm, you've got the traditional version, right?
Speaker:So you've got your high school student working on the farm with you and they say,
Speaker:I'm having a really hard time putting the corn in and you're like, oh well Let me go
Speaker:look at the let me go look at the tractor And then you spend 45 minutes fixing the
Speaker:alignment because something was wrong on the alignment of the tractor Well that
Speaker:teenager didn't ask you for that help.
Speaker:just coming to you to kind of go This is harder than I thought it
Speaker:would be and you're like I fix it for you And they're like I didn't
Speaker:even know that was the problem.
Speaker:What I'm saying is sitting in the seat in the combine for three hours
Speaker:was harder than I thought it was gonna be and you fixed a problem.
Speaker:It just wasn't the problem they were having
Speaker:And it might, and what the problem they were having might
Speaker:not have needed fixing at all.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:They just need to have to learn how to sit on their rear end for three hours
Speaker:without things plugged into their ears.
Speaker:And they might want to just been heard.
Speaker:This sounds a little bit like a conversation, you know, we've had
Speaker:about, you know, husband and wife.
Speaker:You know, with the male, maybe the male dynamic of, you know, I want to fix things
Speaker:when she tells me something's not working.
Speaker:She's upset about something.
Speaker:I want to like go beat somebody up or fix it somehow.
Speaker:And she's like, will you just let me talk?
Speaker:Just shut up long enough just to listen.
Speaker:That's all I need.
Speaker:And if you can't listen, I'll go talk to my pillow.
Speaker:So I'm, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's a process of, there's a, there's a really
Speaker:important conversation, uh, communication key there about, so let me, let me make
Speaker:sure it's checking for understanding.
Speaker:It's an alignment thing, you know?
Speaker:So what is it that you need from me or what exactly is the problem?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And so that's a lot of what we talked about.
Speaker:with that
Speaker:Sorry.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:It is definitely what we talk about in the book.
Speaker:As I say, one of the things that I love with that, John, is we often
Speaker:encourage business owners to find other business owners to vent with that,
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:you want to keep that relationship.
Speaker:And if every time you need to vent, you go to your spouse, your spouse
Speaker:is either going to always try to fix it, they're going to try to
Speaker:figure out why are you doing this?
Speaker:If you're that miserable and really.
Speaker:And so it's easier to go find those peer relationships in your industry, or maybe
Speaker:just in business in general, that can go, oh, let me tell you and, um, and then
Speaker:that way it's it's your cup of coffee.
Speaker:It's your Friday night wine friend.
Speaker:It could be a virtual.
Speaker:that you just know will so relate to what you've got going on and
Speaker:it really saves that relationship.
Speaker:Mm hmm.
Speaker:as long as the perception isn't that that person now becomes more
Speaker:important than the relationship.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Wise, wise words.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:Is there anything that you wish you had known before you started all this?
Speaker:Is there any one thing that you went, Cool.
Speaker:would say probably 1 of the things in addition to the term balance.
Speaker:was to put my own longterm, remember myself in longterm planning.
Speaker:Oh, good.
Speaker:um, with either husband number one or husband number two,
Speaker:I always put the kids first.
Speaker:I always put the family first.
Speaker:And so when, um, unexpectedly marriage number two ended, um, After, you know,
Speaker:24 years, there was no savings for me.
Speaker:Ah.
Speaker:There was no retirement plan for me.
Speaker:And so there's a component that I would tell every business owner
Speaker:and it's actually the last chapter in our book of oh, shit, is.
Speaker:Make a commitment to both of you to having your own retirement programs,
Speaker:um, not just maybe the one with a job.
Speaker:So, if somebody else runs a business, make sure they're also putting themselves
Speaker:first into that retirement program.
Speaker:What, even if it's something small, even if, you know, even if it was 100 a month.
Speaker:For 24 years, there would have been something.
Speaker:Mm hmm.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And, um,
Speaker:it's not necessarily that you're planning for divorce.
Speaker:It's
Speaker:No.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:if somebody loses their job or becomes disabled?
Speaker:You're, you're planning for.
Speaker:All of us will probably eventually become disabled.
Speaker:We're hoping it's in our 90s, right?
Speaker:But sometimes it's a short term disability like a broken arm that makes
Speaker:it such that I need to have money In an account so that I can pay for ubers
Speaker:and taxis and stuff because I can't drive without my right hand I've been
Speaker:I'm the right hand.
Speaker:So between my husband and Kate, I'm getting around and the occasional Uber.
Speaker:Um,
Speaker:you go.
Speaker:if I didn't have a husband who was doing his programming from the
Speaker:house and Kate wasn't in one of her flexible weeks, you know, there's
Speaker:times when Kate would not have been able to help me with transportation
Speaker:You're
Speaker:I need to have a separate account for dealing with that short term disability.
Speaker:And sometimes short term disabilities become long term disabilities, and
Speaker:you've got to have savings in an account for all the members of the management
Speaker:team, so that if they fall and break an arm, or if they get or if they
Speaker:start deciding that huff and glue is their full time occupation, We have a
Speaker:way for them to deal with it and for the business to continue to function.
Speaker:smart.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Amazing.
Speaker:Wonderful, wonderful advice.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:That's, that seems like a perfect place to, to say, let people
Speaker:just settle with that for a bit.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So, I, uh, you showed your book.
Speaker:I, I wanna, I wanna make sure I put in the, you know, the show notes.
Speaker:I'll put your website.
Speaker:I'll put a link to the book, um, other stuff and, uh, so people can
Speaker:find you and I wanna stay in touch about your program expansion , so
Speaker:we can keep that updated as well.
Speaker:Can we see the covers of both books that you have?
Speaker:Well, I can give you the cover of the book that's out which is from oh
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:got this Um yours
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:this little gray bar across it that it says author copy
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:The other book we don't have the cover back yet on um, this is it's
Speaker:Sort of workbook that goes with
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So have some of these same graphics.
Speaker:It just won't be called this it will be called Don't Chase the Monkey
Speaker:Don't Chase the Monkey.
Speaker:But if you
Speaker:Great.
Speaker:look either of us up on Amazon you'll be able to find the books.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:You can also find all of the books at I-got-this-books dot com.
Speaker:Great.
Speaker:We'll put that in the show notes also.
Speaker:Gotthisbooks.
Speaker:com.
Speaker:I love it.
Speaker:Great.
Speaker:Ladies, any other closing words of wisdom you'd like to give us?
Speaker:Like to?
Speaker:No.
Speaker:Yeah, I think you know work.
Speaker:I'm sure Carrie has something we should probably say.
Speaker:I
Speaker:No, tell me what you,
Speaker:what were you gonna say, Kate?
Speaker:I would just, I really want people when they're listening to this
Speaker:episode or any episode by y'all, just to remember that they've got this.
Speaker:And that they can do whatever their, their plans are, their dreams are.
Speaker:And, um, you can be that superhero.
Speaker:we just love people knowing that they've got this.
Speaker:Well said.
Speaker:Well said.
Speaker:Well, thank you so much.
Speaker:I can't wait to uh, to hear the feedback from this episode and look forward to
Speaker:future conversations with both of you.
Speaker:This has been so much fun.
Speaker:Oh my gosh, we laughed till we cried, literally.
Speaker:I
Speaker:look forward to being able to go to a concert with y'all
Speaker:Yes, yes, very much.
Speaker:We'll stay in touch.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Thank you.
