In this episode of Celebrating Small Family Businesses, we meet Chris and Sheley Brien of Brien Contracting, a commercial construction contractor in Scottsdale, AZ.
We learn how Chris’ background in civil construction (think building highways) and Sheley’s background in the corporate world of pharmaceutical sales combine to make Brien Contracting a standout in their industry.
Sheley also has her own podcast, titled More Action where she models her philosophy of taking action, interviews guests, and shares lessons learned.
The discussion includes the myth of work-life balance, raising children while running a business, the importance of self-care, and “over communicating” to maintain clarity in the business.
There is so much accumulated wisdom presented here and we literally ran out of time. I can see another visit with these two in the future.
Where to reach Chris and Sheley
Brien Contracting website: https://briencontracting.com/
Sheley’s website: https://sheleybrien.com/
Sheley’s YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@itssheleybrien
Sheley’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sheley-brien/
00:00 Introduction to Celebrating Small Family Businesses
00:20 The Importance of Taking Action
01:49 Founding of Brien Contracting
03:07 Transition from Civil to Commercial Construction
05:53 Sheley’s Diverse Career Path
09:18 Balancing Family and Business
12:58 Involving Kids in the Family Business
19:31 Sheley’s Health Journey and Advocacy
22:08 The Importance of Self-Care in Business
22:15 Adapting Health Routines Over Time
23:22 Teaching Kids About Nutrition
24:07 Research on Diseases and Lifestyle Factors
25:17 Balancing Work and Personal Life
29:36 The Tyranny of the Urgent
31:22 Managing Schedules and Setting Boundaries
36:44 Over-Communication in Business Partnerships
42:52 The Role of Language in Communication
44:49 Conclusion and Farewell
Hi and welcome to another episode of Celebrating Small Family Businesses.
Speaker:Today we are celebrating Sheley and Chris Brien of Brien Contracting,
Speaker:and also Sheley has her own podcast.
Speaker:And action, ooh, I went blank, sorry.
Speaker:More Action.
Speaker:More action.
Speaker:That's it.
Speaker:More action.
Speaker:And that really was what I picked up from, you know, from listening to you
Speaker:is that you're very pragmatic about it.
Speaker:Like you want to get to the the meat and you want the, your guest, or you want to
Speaker:talk about stuff that's really actionable.
Speaker:And that was, uh, is that like a theme in your, in your business, in your life?
Speaker:And Let's go there first.
Speaker:It's a good pickup, John.
Speaker:Yeah, no, absolutely.
Speaker:You know, I think at the end of the day, um, sometimes the worst
Speaker:thing we can do is inaction.
Speaker:towards our goals, too many decisions to make, maybe failures that are
Speaker:holding you back because you can't trust yourself going forward.
Speaker:Fear of judgment of other people on you that keeps you frozen.
Speaker:And that's like the worst thing that you can do is just take no action.
Speaker:And so, you know, the show is all about just taking more action, whatever that is.
Speaker:removing the labels of good action or bad action.
Speaker:It's just moving forward.
Speaker:Whether it works out how you intended or not is irrelevant.
Speaker:You will always learn something that you can apply going forward.
Speaker:Yeah, that's kind of one of our themes is If it didn't work, what
Speaker:did work about what didn't work?
Speaker:yes, I love that.
Speaker:Because you've got to have that regrouping, so to speak.
Speaker:There's always a silver lining.
Speaker:There's always something that you needed to learn.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:true.
Speaker:So true.
Speaker:So tell us a little bit about how Brien Contracting got started.
Speaker:And where did you guys come together?
Speaker:Cause I think, you know, you originally maybe had separate careers.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:Chris, what about it?
Speaker:Talk about it.
Speaker:it.
Speaker:, well, let's see, Brien Contracting was started in the 2017.
Speaker:Uh, that was following a number of years of myself being in the
Speaker:construction industry, mostly on like the civil, infrastructure
Speaker:highway and, um, back to 2011.
Speaker:Uh, before that I was in commercial real estate in most different forms.
Speaker:So it was just kind of recruited into construction, went from there,
Speaker:learn what I needed to learn.
Speaker:And then, um, you know, we, we had a small stint in having a concrete crushing
Speaker:company and that's a whole 'nother story, but, uh, we started the vertical
Speaker:construction in 2017, uh, right off the bat, jumping into doing restaurant work.
Speaker:um, we've been riding through ever since rode through the
Speaker:pandemic and we just continue to grow and continue to grow strong.
Speaker:And so it's been a, it's been a great ride.
Speaker:I love doing it.
Speaker:Love being in construction, all commercial.
Speaker:We we've done a few residential projects, but our wheelhouse is
Speaker:definitely commercial as we prefer to be.
Speaker:I can understand that.
Speaker:I would feel the same way about real estate.
Speaker:Much cleaner.
Speaker:No emotion.
Speaker:to the numbers Get to the bottom line
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:So, did, it seems clear that your experience in commercial real estate would
Speaker:have informed a lot about, you know, when you're doing commercial construction.
Speaker:What your clients are expecting and kind of what their world is like.
Speaker:How about the civil construction?
Speaker:How did that inform what you're doing?
Speaker:Um, it's, um, it's a completely different animal than the vertical
Speaker:side of it, but I would say that there is a lot of it's a different level.
Speaker:I guess.
Speaker:How would I compare it to like vertical?
Speaker:It's more detail oriented, , more heavily on the engineering side than vertical.
Speaker:There's a lot of unforeseen stuff that you're dealing with when
Speaker:you're getting into the ground and you're going underground where
Speaker:you pretty much know what you're doing when you go and, you know,
Speaker:building anything from the ground up.
Speaker:So it's.
Speaker:You know, I don't want to say every job is different.
Speaker:I don't want to say it's all cookie cutter, but it's kind of like just a
Speaker:repeat process where the civil side of it is kind of different every time.
Speaker:I mean, you really don't know what you're getting into once
Speaker:you get through the ground.
Speaker:So, and there's, it's just different levels of scale too.
Speaker:So, but I think that helped us tremendously, um, from that experience,
Speaker:from going from working with municipalities and even federal work
Speaker:and airport work to transferring in like mainly the communication skills,
Speaker:the like time management skills, the reporting skills, the documentation
Speaker:skills are a different level.
Speaker:So that helps transfer over to the, uh, to the commercial side of it,
Speaker:where it's kind of not done that way.
Speaker:It's more wild westish I would call it maybe.
Speaker:Um, so we're able to keep that formal process of it into our,
Speaker:uh, our main construction side.
Speaker:That's really cool.
Speaker:Yeah, I was thinking that, especially when you mentioned, as soon as
Speaker:you said, uh, municipalities, I'm thinking, oh, yeah, paperwork, the
Speaker:project management and the, and the documentation and the communication.
Speaker:Um, It has to be next level in the, in the civil side, so that
Speaker:those systems would really fit.
Speaker:I mean, it
Speaker:It's day and night.
Speaker:I mean, yeah, it's the paperwork itself.
Speaker:You mentioned paperwork.
Speaker:I mean, just the bidding process alone.
Speaker:I mean, sometimes it's, it's literally a full time job, just a bit of project
Speaker:and that side of it, just with the amount of paperwork you have to do.
Speaker:aren't there consultants that that's their job?
Speaker:Is there kind of that middleman between
Speaker:yeah, I mean, there, there are, um, we've, we've ran into a few of them.
Speaker:It's mostly where we run into the consultants is on like the homeowners
Speaker:association sides, cause they'll come in and they'll represent a homeowners
Speaker:association and as a consultant.
Speaker:And so you'll work through them, but from the, you know, the bidding part
Speaker:of it, from that side of it, the municipalities, it's better to keep
Speaker:that stuff in house just because it's such a numbers game on winning it.
Speaker:It, it, you know, you keep that stuff in house.
Speaker:So,
Speaker:I see, I see.
Speaker:And so Sheley, what, um, you, you had a corporate career for
Speaker:20 plus years, I think I read.
Speaker:Mm hmm.
Speaker:Tell me.
Speaker:So I had nothing to do with construction at all.
Speaker:Um, but you know, it's just like going back to, you know, taking more action is.
Speaker:career was finance and then I went into pharmaceuticals.
Speaker:Uh, then I went into media and I decided to try to run a restaurant and own a
Speaker:restaurant at one point, because why not?
Speaker:And then, you know, all of that experience just built up to be able to like
Speaker:what Chris was just mentioning about.
Speaker:Um, you know, that that civil work and the details, you know, when it comes to
Speaker:having to do that type of work versus general contracting, you know, here
Speaker:in Arizona, he mentions the wild wild west and and we're talking commercial,
Speaker:which is more, um, organized, let's say
Speaker:versus residential
Speaker:is is truly.
Speaker:It's like Mad Max
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:you know, versus like commercial out here.
Speaker:But I think one of the reasons that we've been able to work with
Speaker:such large organizations and get repeat work is because of that, like
Speaker:formality of like my experience of incorporate in the organization.
Speaker:And I understand how these large corporations are working and the
Speaker:employees that we work with and what they are concerned with.
Speaker:Being employees in that organization and Chris's heavy background in organizing
Speaker:and being able to run these projects, high touch point communication, um, you know,
Speaker:follow through on paperwork, all of that.
Speaker:All of kind of the nitty gritty stuff where, you know, you even saw if,
Speaker:if you're watching this, you even saw his face like, Oh my gosh, the
Speaker:paperwork in civil was like crazy.
Speaker:But it was such great experience because it's separating us now from the wild west.
Speaker:Like we're setting a new standard on what is the expectation For commercial
Speaker:general contracting here in Arizona.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So,
Speaker:Nice.
Speaker:That's actually one thing that Sheley helped me really understand
Speaker:when she came in and, um, lent her experience to the construction company.
Speaker:It was working with corporate companies because I never was in the corporate game.
Speaker:I never worked for big corporations, so I don't really have the experience
Speaker:with the different levels of things and the different kind of pain points
Speaker:of your customers that you work with.
Speaker:And so her experience of being through that side of it, that game
Speaker:realizing like, what is, why is this one specific construction manager
Speaker:Really focused on this particular item?
Speaker:And to me, it's like, why are we doing this?
Speaker:And, you know, when I talked to Sheley about that, she's like, well, you got
Speaker:to remember there's different layers upon layers that he's answering to, and
Speaker:there's always some underlying issue on why they're focusing on that one
Speaker:thing from a corporate perspective.
Speaker:So she helps really shed some light on that with her experience
Speaker:in the corporate environment.
Speaker:That's awesome.
Speaker:Yeah, I mean, and that person might be, might be caught in a
Speaker:vice of politics beyond the job stuff and the, the risk management.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:A
Speaker:A hundred percent self-preservation
Speaker:in a lot of these large organizations, right?
Speaker:And I understand that.
Speaker:We, we both do.
Speaker:lot of CYA.
Speaker:This is so cool.
Speaker:I
Speaker:Another way to
Speaker:put it, Connie.
Speaker:I
Speaker:think that's the theme.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:percent.
Speaker:So what, uh, I'm going to jump into the family side of it.
Speaker:So you, you brought a lot of skills from your various experiences.
Speaker:Now you're husband and wife working together in the business.
Speaker:How did you manage that from get go?
Speaker:And what have you, uh, what have you learned?
Speaker:I don't even know.
Speaker:I feel like I just blacked out on that.
Speaker:We just
Speaker:Well, you're still married, right?
Speaker:So that's a good thing.
Speaker:That's a good thing.
Speaker:We're still married.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:great thing.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Um, I don't know how you want to answer that.
Speaker:I can answer it if you want me to.
Speaker:Um, it was, uh, it was a roller coaster, honestly.
Speaker:Um, we're
Speaker:hmm.
Speaker:very strong personalities.
Speaker:Um, and we both kind of, when it first started, we came in bulls and China shop
Speaker:and we just were like, do this, do this, let's go this, stay out of my lane.
Speaker:You stay in your lane.
Speaker:Like a lot of, there was a lot of.
Speaker:Like trying to figure it out.
Speaker:And in the beginning it was like a roller coaster.
Speaker:Where it would be like, great.
Speaker:And then we started understanding each other's strengths are
Speaker:also the opposite's weakness.
Speaker:So where I don't love to operate in gray, I love black and white.
Speaker:I'm learning how to operate in gray Like he operates in gray on a daily basis.
Speaker:So something like that, where I might get nervous, he's okay with like that
Speaker:level of risk or what's going on.
Speaker:So being able to lean on each other in those areas or understanding different
Speaker:communications, or I love opera.
Speaker:I love systems processes and operations.
Speaker:And so, wow.
Speaker:In the field, it's operating in a lot of gray.
Speaker:We don't have that, but as we bring on additional team, you know, that don't
Speaker:have the experience that Chris does to, to run some of these jobs, superintendents,
Speaker:project managers, engineers, to be able to do this, we have to have the
Speaker:systems to be able to like extract what's in his brain and put it out.
Speaker:So he sees the value in that, but he doesn't want to do it.
Speaker:I love to do that.
Speaker:So like, you know, kind of learning different areas where we can both thrive.
Speaker:And I, I think at the end of the day, and we've had to say this on multiple times
Speaker:is like, always have the same end goal.
Speaker:always do.
Speaker:We just have very different ways of getting there sometimes.
Speaker:And not one way is right.
Speaker:And not one way is wrong.
Speaker:They're just different and having tough conversations when sometimes we need,
Speaker:like, just need you to listen, not try it.
Speaker:And solve the problem, just listen so that we can, you know, figure
Speaker:it out and it's still going on.
Speaker:I mean, it's still going on, but you know, we just celebrated 19 years married.
Speaker:Um, so, yep.
Speaker:And, uh, it's a lot of, it's a lot of fun.
Speaker:It's hard.
Speaker:It's hard.
Speaker:It's work.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:But it's wonderful.
Speaker:I'd say two things on the family side that I'd like to highlight would be
Speaker:one that we definitely make time, um, right now it's a little difficult
Speaker:because of summer vacation with the kids, definitely make time to do like
Speaker:date nights, or we have like a standing day date on a Friday, usually around
Speaker:like, Usually at least for us in construction, a lot of times by the time
Speaker:Friday rolls around, everyone's cutting out by two o'clock in the afternoon.
Speaker:we usually do like a lunch date, uh, around noon or one and just the two of us,
Speaker:and we either, sometimes we talk business, sometimes we don't, we just, sometimes we
Speaker:just talk about the travel we want to do.
Speaker:And so like at the end of the week, that really helps kind of
Speaker:just like, you know, relax, you know, it's everything's so crazy.
Speaker:We can just reconnect, um, with the stuff that we want to do.
Speaker:And, uh, that I feel like strengthens.
Speaker:us.
Speaker:And then with the kids, it's keeping them involved in what we're doing.
Speaker:So they're at an age right now, they understand that really
Speaker:young, they're, they're 12 and 14.
Speaker:Um, so they understand when they see us working in the office and we're doing
Speaker:things and we definitely involve them.
Speaker:I try and get my daughter involved in doing estimating and, you know,
Speaker:doing measurements off plans.
Speaker:My son's at the age now where I actually take him to work a
Speaker:couple of times and I'll have
Speaker:Cool.
Speaker:know, do demolition or Drywall or paint.
Speaker:And he likes being around all the guys working.
Speaker:So keeping them involved in the process is like, then it becomes more of like this,
Speaker:this family kind of business that we hope it to be down the road as we grow this.
Speaker:So
Speaker:Oh, that's very smart.
Speaker:So, lots of things there.
Speaker:Sheley, you mentioned the male dilemma.
Speaker:That's that, am I trying to solve this?
Speaker:Or is this one of those times you need me to just listen?
Speaker:It took me a long time to learn that, didn't it?
Speaker:I was automatically trying to fix it.
Speaker:I'm still learning it.
Speaker:Like I think, but we both are.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:know,
Speaker:You
Speaker:just have to"Listen!"
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:True.
Speaker:Yeah, it's because it's like the emotions are running high and it's
Speaker:like, how do we make that stop?
Speaker:Surely it's got to be, you know, that we fix it, but no, it's not.
Speaker:So that's,
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think, you know, that could be expanded, of course, into a lot of other things,
Speaker:but that communication, figuring that out and being willing and able to
Speaker:say, Hey, I just need you to listen.
Speaker:You know, recognizing that.
Speaker:And not letting it escalate a different direction.
Speaker:Huge.
Speaker:Huge.
Speaker:Well, and it's, you know, when you think about, back in my corporate days, I
Speaker:talk about crucial conversations, right?
Speaker:You'd have to have a, a crucial conversation.
Speaker:It's like nothing was a problem.
Speaker:It was a challenge, like all these things, right?
Speaker:But it's different when it's your spouse,
Speaker:Mm hmm.
Speaker:there's emotions, there's history, there's love, there's, there's
Speaker:all of these things going on.
Speaker:And sometimes like.
Speaker:We speak too quick before processing exactly what is going on.
Speaker:And the more that we can communicate and have those times, like Chris
Speaker:was talking about the day dates, we also have a Tuesday business
Speaker:meeting, just the two of us.
Speaker:So it's like we've scheduled out these times and these are the times
Speaker:and they're set in the calendar.
Speaker:So when
Speaker:someone tries to schedule with us on those days
Speaker:or those times, it's like, no unavailable.
Speaker:Like we are unavailable because we already have something on the books for us.
Speaker:And, and I think, um, I think I either did a post on this or maybe even a podcast
Speaker:episode, just how to make sure that if you are working with your spouse, like
Speaker:your marriage is the most important part of the partnership over the business.
Speaker:I think that is like keeping that in mind that it, nothing like our
Speaker:family, our most important possessions don't like nothing is without us.
Speaker:And so that's like number one above all else.
Speaker:Even
Speaker:wise.
Speaker:Very wise.
Speaker:Yeah, because, I mean, ultimately, uh, uh, family, whether it's
Speaker:marriage or, or family relationship, The business can go away, right?
Speaker:But you're still there, you're still there and you're still family.
Speaker:And you, you know, you, you don't want to have to be repairing that.
Speaker:no way.
Speaker:No
Speaker:need that.
Speaker:You know, if something changes with the business for whatever, I
Speaker:mean, sometimes, you know, we were, we were in the citrus business.
Speaker:That's, that's a dying industry here in Florida.
Speaker:So we, we had to shut it down.
Speaker:And at 50 years old, I'm.
Speaker:Like, the thing I thought I was going to retire from, the family business, I had to
Speaker:start over and figure out, okay, now what?
Speaker:So, it can happen.
Speaker:Yeah, we're on plan F.
Speaker:But, you know, we've got Literally, we are on plan F.
Speaker:Oh yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:More practice.
Speaker:More practice.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:It's all practice.
Speaker:It is all practice.
Speaker:Oh yeah.
Speaker:So I love what you said about the kids too, that you're, you're involving them,
Speaker:keeping them informed, you know, kind of letting them see behind the curtain.
Speaker:They know what's going on.
Speaker:They can understand, you know, when there's stress, what's causing it.
Speaker:They're not just like, you know, some families want to hide the business or
Speaker:hide their stresses from their kids.
Speaker:You know, that's kind of, I think, an old school thing.
Speaker:But.
Speaker:That didn't, that didn't usually work well, right, because then the kids
Speaker:don't know, they feel something's wrong, but they don't know what it is.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:And they don't really know, like they see us, maybe me gone more or working in
Speaker:the office a lot, even on the weekends.
Speaker:Um, and think that we're maybe neglecting them.
Speaker:I don't, that's the last thing I want them to feel.
Speaker:So it's like we obviously carve out time to spend specifically with
Speaker:them, but like, I would like to bring them in here and show us what we're
Speaker:Mm hmm.
Speaker:you know, breaking this down here, Jax.
Speaker:Here's what my son's name is Jax.
Speaker:Here's what we're doing.
Speaker:Here's what we're working on.
Speaker:What do you think of this?
Speaker:And ask him questions and try.
Speaker:He, he sometimes glosses over and you can tell he's super bored and doesn't want
Speaker:anything to do with it, but it's just.
Speaker:Involving him in the process.
Speaker:It's like going out and playing catch in the backyard.
Speaker:It's just the time that we're spending together is what's important.
Speaker:And he's also getting more than what you think he's getting.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:especially because our kids are much, much older now and, and the feedback that
Speaker:we're getting is, Oh, they heard much more than what we, what we, you know,
Speaker:more than what we wish they had learned.
Speaker:Like video recorders from two years old on.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:They're like little elephants.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:And I'm hearing it coming out of the one son who has his own children, the
Speaker:exact things that we were saying back.
Speaker:In the day and it's kind of like and I'm looking and he's going and he's
Speaker:just rolling his eyes going Yeah, that should not have come out of my mouth
Speaker:So have you found that have you caught yourself doing that have
Speaker:you like oh my god I just heard my parent come out of my mouth
Speaker:I maybe once or twice.
Speaker:I can't think of it, but I do, there's kind of a couple of things I think I
Speaker:Wait till you get to the real teenage years.
Speaker:It may happen.
Speaker:It may happen.
Speaker:I don't I can't predict the future but Don't be surprised if one day
Speaker:something comes out of your mouth.
Speaker:You think It sounds like an echo from your past.
Speaker:Oh gosh, I'm sure.
Speaker:I am sure.
Speaker:So Sheley, how did you get into the health aspect of this?
Speaker:Um, well, I have a really unique story just with health in general.
Speaker:Um, it is, uh, just personally when I was in the financial industry, I built
Speaker:a big, big book of business, and then I decided I don't want to do this anymore.
Speaker:And I moved over to pharmaceuticals.
Speaker:Well, at that time I was just working so hard, um, long
Speaker:hours, You know, stacked ranks.
Speaker:So I always wanted to be first, like doing all of these extra things that I
Speaker:just let my, I neglected my health and unfortunately my body had gotten so weak
Speaker:that I wa uh, went blind in my left eye
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:essentially a virus, um, that I, we all have, right?
Speaker:That of, or I would say 40 and above, um, because now they have
Speaker:a vaccine for it as chickenpox.
Speaker:Well, as an adult it can come back as shingles.
Speaker:It's the same virus.
Speaker:It just comes back out and it came out of my optic nerve.
Speaker:And
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:Mm-Hmm.
Speaker:just weak and couldn't.
Speaker:We all, if we, if you had chicken pox, you have the virus, you have the virus
Speaker:for the rest of your life, your body does a good job of keeping it dormant.
Speaker:It arises out of stress or when you're not taking care of yourself.
Speaker:And so it came out of my optic nerve and, um, left me blind.
Speaker:And so when that happened, it just kind of started a cascade of, of things of like,
Speaker:okay, I got to think a little bit bigger.
Speaker:I got to take care, better care of myself.
Speaker:And, you know, then I went into the pharmaceutical industry and I learned a
Speaker:whole bunch, um, just about the medical industry and whole being a patient myself
Speaker:with kind of a unique background and.
Speaker:Various other things, you know, um, something obviously we teach our kids
Speaker:and we do for us in the business too, is just being an advocate for yourself.
Speaker:And so, you know, that comes to your health too, not just even being
Speaker:an advocate for your business and, and showing how great you are for
Speaker:your business and advocate for your team, but it's even for yourself.
Speaker:And so.
Speaker:Um, you know, it, I think a lot of it can be handled just with some education
Speaker:and understanding proper nutrition as well as the importance of exercise and
Speaker:just expanding our minds, you know, um, like reading and podcasting, listening,
Speaker:listening to, I'm a podcast host, but also listening to very specific podcasts.
Speaker:I, I always protect what I listened to.
Speaker:Just as much as I protect what I ingest in my food is, I think it's
Speaker:one of the secret weapons that we can use as business owners.
Speaker:Is the better we take care of ourselves, the better we can
Speaker:perform every day in our business.
Speaker:Um, the
Speaker:Mm-Hmm.
Speaker:we can be, the better, you know, team that we can be when we take care of ourselves,
Speaker:like we, and you know, we used to lift heavy and we've done fitness competition.
Speaker:We used to do all this, but now we're like older and we've done it for a
Speaker:long time and we're like, Oh my gosh.
Speaker:This hurts now.
Speaker:And I don't want to go that hard anymore.
Speaker:And like, Oh man, we're doing yoga.
Speaker:Like what, like, but it's evolving with what we need.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Like.
Speaker:while in the past, like lifting heavy was kind of a release too,
Speaker:because just stress and everything.
Speaker:Now it's
Speaker:Mm-Hmm.
Speaker:exhausting.
Speaker:So we need a different something like, what is that going to be?
Speaker:Um, you know, my daughter and I ride horses, like that's a way for me to kind
Speaker:of go take care of myself too, you know, um, planning vacations, like all of
Speaker:these things are around health and it's not just like physically how you feel.
Speaker:It's.
Speaker:you know, or the physical appearance of how you look, that's actually
Speaker:probably last on the totem pole.
Speaker:It's everything else, you know, that's inside.
Speaker:um, health is just something that, you know, I've just like we bring
Speaker:our kids along and learning, um, the business and plans and all of that.
Speaker:I teach them what carbs and fats and proteins are and, You know, my son is a
Speaker:gymnast, like how important it is with him building muscle to eat proper stuff, you
Speaker:know, how they, you know, what is, what is a good snack that's nutritious versus not.
Speaker:And of course they eat ice cream and chicken nuggets and mac and cheese.
Speaker:Of course they do.
Speaker:It's not about restriction.
Speaker:It's just about understanding.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Mm-Hmm.
Speaker:just it.
Speaker:Like they know when they're tired, it's like, okay, we're going to bed.
Speaker:Like your body just needs to recharge, you know?
Speaker:Listen to your body.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Huge.
Speaker:I, I did a bunch of research into different diseases at one
Speaker:point you know, what causes this?
Speaker:And there were two themes that I found.
Speaker:One theme was that all the major diseases that I found, somewhere in the discussion
Speaker:said, scientists or doctors really don't know what causes this, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker:And, we think, and there's this associated, blah, blah, but, but it
Speaker:was, there was always that theme.
Speaker:And then the other theme was Lifestyle factors.
Speaker:There's four lifestyle factors, right?
Speaker:Rest, movement, nutrition, and I said rest, you know, sleep,
Speaker:and then also managing stress.
Speaker:Those four things, they universally said those four things have more
Speaker:impact on your prevention and your health than any medicine, anything, any
Speaker:medical treatment that anybody can do.
Speaker:And they're all in your control as a patient.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:Who knew?
Speaker:It's
Speaker:The basics.
Speaker:right?
Speaker:Like, it's just, it's just knowledge, you know, if you're going to look at a
Speaker:PNL and if you're going to look at like.
Speaker:You're marketing, you know, launch or whatever, and, and how that performed,
Speaker:it's just data to tell you what's going on so that you can make changes.
Speaker:Our body just needs that same, same information too, that, you know, once we
Speaker:understand it, we can make adjustments, you know, like some days, like, Even
Speaker:on vacation, we'll be working, right?
Speaker:Small business is what we do, um, is that we'll be working.
Speaker:But then some days I'm like, you know what?
Speaker:I just need to, I need to be done.
Speaker:Uh huh.
Speaker:to be done for the day and that's fine.
Speaker:Then we come back and even stronger than that.
Speaker:So I think that there's so much behind it, but, um, what you said, those, those
Speaker:four points are incredibly important.
Speaker:Incredibly.
Speaker:I mean, when you see construction.
Speaker:Guys out on the site.
Speaker:I don't know anyone else that looks like him.
Speaker:Uh huh.
Speaker:one, you know, and it's like they worked and ate nutrition or like fast food,
Speaker:like a hundred percent of the time.
Speaker:And, and I get it sometimes when we are busy and it's hard to have choices.
Speaker:Um, but it's a choice not to take action and plan ahead and like
Speaker:plan your lunch and, you know, have nutritious options available at your
Speaker:fingertips rather than the bag of chips.
Speaker:Like these are all just choices, but it comes from education.
Speaker:And I love that you did the research on that.
Speaker:I'm sure, Dr.
Speaker:Google was scary enough when you started down that path.
Speaker:Um, but I think it's, it's just the more knowledge you can get, then you can
Speaker:make educated decisions for yourself.
Speaker:In our work with, um, with small family businesses, one of the things
Speaker:we do is ask about self care, you know, what do you do for self care and
Speaker:talk about that because , I consider it an essential business function.
Speaker:It is a management function.
Speaker:If, if you, especially as a business owner, it If you drop out, I mean,
Speaker:can the business run without you?
Speaker:Like, like Chris, if you took a month off, would it just keep
Speaker:right going without you there?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So, so that's, you know, I, I've tried to put that in front of the,
Speaker:the client and say, okay, what, what happens if you fall out?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So if it's not like, oh, well, we're fine, then let's talk about
Speaker:self care and what are you doing?
Speaker:And make that a priority because that's every bit as important as cashflow.
Speaker:Well, and the thing is, is that so many people, um, and I get it,
Speaker:uh, business owners, leaders and organizations are so driven and focused
Speaker:on their end goal that it's like, Oh, I'll take care of myself when.
Speaker:I'll do that when.
Speaker:I got to do this and then I'll do that.
Speaker:Like it's always like something else is the priority over it.
Speaker:And as soon as, you know, um, you make that shift and actually go, no, I'm the
Speaker:priority and then everything else will be better because I am the priority.
Speaker:It changes the game.
Speaker:Like it truly changes the game.
Speaker:And there's periods of time where we've been able to be even more
Speaker:focused on our health and wellness.
Speaker:And then times that, you know what, the balance was off and that's okay.
Speaker:And we had to focus more on the business and there were more things going on.
Speaker:It didn't mean that it stopped a hundred percent, but it was definitely.
Speaker:I think the word balance is a joke anyway, but it was definitely way off kilter.
Speaker:And so, you know, the thing is, is that it's never been gone with us being
Speaker:priorities or taking care of our health.
Speaker:Like I'm, I'm a huge advocate.
Speaker:You know, we've got two athlete kids.
Speaker:We're, I would consider it athletes, like things that we do.
Speaker:It like, it's very important.
Speaker:Like I have all the dinners planned for the week.
Speaker:We have very nutritious food all the time.
Speaker:Cause I'm like.
Speaker:At very least we will be fed well in the sense of like it will give us the proper
Speaker:fuel and energy to be able to do the things that we all do as a family, which
Speaker:is, is a lot like we pull long, long days.
Speaker:And so I think that, um, it's important that you bring that up because it isn't
Speaker:talked about a lot, you know, amongst, um, small business owners or entrepreneurs.
Speaker:Yeah, because there's always something that's, you know, pulling you away
Speaker:if you don't make time for it.
Speaker:If you don't put it on that calendar.
Speaker:If you don't,
Speaker:You'll just go right by your time to go to the gym and keep working.
Speaker:and if you have to go at five o'clock in the morning, you're there with
Speaker:all the doctors who are just getting
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:go in.
Speaker:So it's, it's fine.
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:there's a theme you, you're probably both familiar with.
Speaker:It was called the tyranny of the urgent, right?
Speaker:The there's, there's urgent and there's important and the urgent stuff is
Speaker:that stuff that always feels like, Oh, I have to take care of this first.
Speaker:And there's a never ending supply of that stuff.
Speaker:It just never, it's never over.
Speaker:The, the inbox is always full and, and it, of course depends on what you assign
Speaker:as urgent, but, um, yeah, you've gotta, you, you've, you've gotta shift that
Speaker:and figure out, okay, what's important, and we're gonna do that first or make
Speaker:that, and, and BI love what you said about balance, Sheley, that, um, you
Speaker:know, because it's, it's, it's like this, it is like the rollercoaster
Speaker:you talked about in the beginning.
Speaker:It really never stops.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:You, you've got times, you said there's times Chris, when you guys are spending
Speaker:less time with the kids, you don't want 'em to feel like you're neglecting them.
Speaker:But you bring them in and you show them, Oh, we got all this
Speaker:going on, and it's temporary.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's definitely phases for sure.
Speaker:There's times when you're really busy and you got to focus and there's
Speaker:times when it's less busy and you can, you know, do it, you know,
Speaker:take advantage of other things.
Speaker:So absolutely.
Speaker:Well, an emergency on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
Speaker:That's our favorite saying.
Speaker:There was a, service department at some business that we, and they said,
Speaker:Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
Speaker:Which was a
Speaker:huh.
Speaker:take on it.
Speaker:That's true.
Speaker:So very true.
Speaker:Very
Speaker:And especially in a small family business, because you're constantly being bombarded
Speaker:with the phone, the emails, the, you know, somebody walking in, whatever it
Speaker:is, and trying to just carve out that even two minutes to take a breath.
Speaker:As we well know, sometimes it's difficult.
Speaker:Oh yeah.
Speaker:And especially
Speaker:I think a of it
Speaker:industry.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:I have more, I have more control over my schedule than Chris does.
Speaker:You know, he has more forward facing with the clients in the field and the
Speaker:clients either being our subcontractors that we're working with, um, Our team
Speaker:and or our client or the property manager, like so many people.
Speaker:Um, but for me to what I have found, and I know that you do do this to a point.
Speaker:I just have more ability to do it is like today is Tuesday.
Speaker:Tuesday is my meeting day.
Speaker:I literally stack up all my meetings because I can't, if I have
Speaker:too many meetings throughout my week, I can't get any work done.
Speaker:And so I will just block out certain days.
Speaker:And I'm like, these are the days that I have meetings every other day.
Speaker:It's mine.
Speaker:And if I do take a meeting, it's not till the afternoon.
Speaker:And that was a big mindset for me.
Speaker:Cause I'm a morning person.
Speaker:So I'm going to get everything done in the morning.
Speaker:I want to check all those boxes and move right on.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:But I wasn't getting any work done.
Speaker:And so I had to really take control over my schedule and be like, okay, meetings.
Speaker:Like I had three meetings, three hour long meetings today already.
Speaker:And I'm like, okay, let me like push those all on one day.
Speaker:And if we can't get it on that day, that's fine.
Speaker:We're going to go out next week or the week after.
Speaker:I'm not going to flex my schedule.
Speaker:I think the more that we protect our time, it allows us to not only get the important
Speaker:work done, not take care of the fires, but get the important work done and also stick
Speaker:to the other things that are important to us, you know, running this business is, is
Speaker:obviously very important, but our family and us and like having the date, having
Speaker:the dates, having the date night, having the time to go to the gym, having the time
Speaker:to spend with the kids, like, Those are important, but we have to take control
Speaker:of our schedule to be able to do that.
Speaker:And there's times where my schedule is out of control and summer vacation.
Speaker:And then times when, you know, it comes back in line and I can, I can,
Speaker:um, just be more protective of it.
Speaker:proactive versus reactive and trying to be as proactive as possible when you can.
Speaker:But there's times, like you were saying, when, you know, when something
Speaker:happens, you have to react, you have to, you have to respond at least.
Speaker:But Cool.
Speaker:Was there any particular tool, going back to how you figured out your
Speaker:strengths, uh, was there any assessment or tool or process you went through
Speaker:to, to help identify your individual strengths or did you just kind of
Speaker:figure it out from buttin' heads?
Speaker:There wasn't a specific tool.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:There was no tool.
Speaker:There was no tool.
Speaker:I think it was a lot of conversations.
Speaker:A lot of, um, A lot of fighting.
Speaker:And like, and like ego, like setting the ego aside.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Like.
Speaker:You know, I love systems and processes, like I said, and I hear stuff
Speaker:that's going on in the field, but I'm not in the field experience it.
Speaker:And so I hear this and I'm like, let me come in and fix
Speaker:it with a process and a system.
Speaker:And that's not my lane because I'm not living that.
Speaker:And I don't understand, I don't understand the gray of what's going on in there.
Speaker:And so, wow, I think that's the solution.
Speaker:I really don't have the experience to prove it's the solution.
Speaker:And so I had to kind of like step back and be like, well, wait a minute.
Speaker:Like he knows this best now that I'm coming out there
Speaker:and we're building a team.
Speaker:Well, now it's a little bit like we have the ability to create kind of the
Speaker:Brien Contracting process in how we work with clients, start a project and
Speaker:a project punch list, like all these different things that now we can give
Speaker:tools to our team to be like, Hey, make sure you hit every check mark on this.
Speaker:Otherwise we're going to miss something on a punch walk or something.
Speaker:So it's, it's through trial and error there.
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:I don't know that there's, I mean, you could do like a strength finder.
Speaker:You could do like the disc.
Speaker:You can, we know we're drivers.
Speaker:Uh, we, we know that like we could, but like, I think it's
Speaker:understanding that and letting the other person shine when they're good.
Speaker:And owning it when you screw up.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Yeah, that's, I think it's been hard.
Speaker:I will say that I've had business partners before and from like a standpoint of roles
Speaker:within what you do and what areas that your expertise is and your strengths are.
Speaker:I said, I think it's, it was harder to figure that out with a spouse than it was
Speaker:with just someone who you partner with.
Speaker:Um, because I feel like when you, when you partner with someone in the business, you
Speaker:both feel like you're bringing different strengths already to the business.
Speaker:So when you form it, you're like, well, I'll do this and I can do
Speaker:this and we can put this together and partner up and go on it.
Speaker:And it's kind of where you guys start as opposed to when you're doing it from.
Speaker:We're, we're kind of operating and then you bring in your spouse and
Speaker:like Sheley came into construction and then I feel like it's a lot harder to
Speaker:work your way through, uh, who's good at what, who's going to handle what.
Speaker:And then you combine that also with.
Speaker:If you have an intertwined personal relationship outside of the business,
Speaker:it's one of the more challenging things I think I would say it would
Speaker:be when you're doing a partnership for sure is it's, it's tough, it's tough.
Speaker:You've got history
Speaker:of communication.
Speaker:that you've got to balance.
Speaker:So,
Speaker:Lots of history.
Speaker:What's a tip that you would offer to other small family businesses when
Speaker:they're trying to sort that out?
Speaker:I would say over communicate crystal clear on, uh, not only whatever
Speaker:topic or discussion or how you, like how something, I guess I want
Speaker:to say feels, but like almost like openness from one person's end.
Speaker:So like the communication, just using us as an example, the breakdown we've had
Speaker:is like what Sheley said, from what's going out on site on a daily basis.
Speaker:Where she's operating in the blind, she doesn't know what's happening out there
Speaker:and what's going on and it happened so quick for us that I come home or she finds
Speaker:something out and she wants to talk about topic A, but I'm, I'm already on topic Q,
Speaker:because we've solved that, something else
Speaker:come up.
Speaker:We moved on.
Speaker:We change order.
Speaker:We change the schedule.
Speaker:Now this is happening.
Speaker:And now we're here and all that blew by her.
Speaker:And so for me, it's like, are we to figure it out?
Speaker:We're moved on, but she really wants to understand what happened and what we're
Speaker:talking about and where we're going.
Speaker:And is it, is it bad?
Speaker:Is it good?
Speaker:Is the risk is what's not.
Speaker:And it's still like going back and rehashing that.
Speaker:So it's like, it's communication.
Speaker:It's just, it's so, it's so much just, and not like, I can, I can tend to be
Speaker:feel like, well, I've already done this, I've already talked about it and you
Speaker:don't know what's going on, so I'm not going to really address it with you.
Speaker:But like, that doesn't really take into account, like what, what she
Speaker:needs to know and what she has to make her decisions based on what she does.
Speaker:So, uh, it's just over communication and not trying, trying very, very hard
Speaker:not to think that take things personal.
Speaker:I think what you, what you said at the end is the most important is that
Speaker:like, it's just not take it personal.
Speaker:You know, like if I say, we could have done this better, or
Speaker:we could have done that better.
Speaker:It's not Chris Brien could have done it better.
Speaker:I'm like, what did we learn?
Speaker:How can we be better?
Speaker:And ultimately we are building this to fire ourselves.
Speaker:Like we want a legacy company, but we want to fire ourselves.
Speaker:We still will be at here, but we want to bring up such an
Speaker:incredible team and culture
Speaker:that they don't need us, you know what I mean?
Speaker:Like they don't need us.
Speaker:And, and that's what we, it's like raising our kids.
Speaker:It might be a bad analogy, we want them to be equipped to make great decisions
Speaker:and they're going to screw up, but like, that's okay, learn from it, move on.
Speaker:And so it's like, as we do that with the team, it's just like, not take
Speaker:anything personal and know, what was it for me is to remember we, we always
Speaker:have the same goal, like our same goal.
Speaker:It is the same.
Speaker:And some days I think my, my way is a better way.
Speaker:And if that's true, I'm going to stick to my guns in it.
Speaker:But some days he might say something.
Speaker:I'm like, damn, I never thought about that.
Speaker:Like, that's actually a really good point.
Speaker:We should do that.
Speaker:Like being open to hear both sides, like the, the, the good and the bad.
Speaker:And like, remembering like, no matter what it is, it's not personal.
Speaker:We're just trying to get towards our end goal.
Speaker:like, how do we do that?
Speaker:How do we learn from each other and make it so it's just easier.
Speaker:And it's, it's community.
Speaker:It's everything, everything in businesses, communication.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:It's a touchdown.
Speaker:Yes, it
Speaker:yeah, yeah,
Speaker:We like to say that information flow precedes cash flow.
Speaker:It's a leading indicator.
Speaker:It's the root that's the flow of the blood in the business is the
Speaker:information, the communication.
Speaker:And everybody wants it the opposite way.
Speaker:They want the cash flow first, and then we'll talk to you.
Speaker:Well, they want to measure by the cash and it's really a secondary thing.
Speaker:The money is an after effect.
Speaker:absolutely.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:hundred percent.
Speaker:A
Speaker:I love the over communication.
Speaker:Um, I hadn't, we, we don't necessarily refer to it like that, but it, but
Speaker:it does appear like that when you're really doing it when you're thorough.
Speaker:You know, like, it's like, Chris, did I understand?
Speaker:Now, I heard you say this and.
Speaker:I want to make sure I got it right.
Speaker:So did you mean it this way or did you mean it that way, right?
Speaker:That asking clarifying questions when you can explain somebody
Speaker:else's position to them in a way that, yeah, wow, you really got it.
Speaker:I hadn't thought of it that way.
Speaker:Now you're communicating, right?
Speaker:And, and then, and then when it, when both people feel understood,
Speaker:then the person, it's almost impossible to take it personally.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:A hundred percent.
Speaker:And
Speaker:And setting boundaries.
Speaker:That's something new that we've tried to be working on is like setting
Speaker:communication boundaries for things like, this is like a boundary for me.
Speaker:Don't cross it.
Speaker:Like, otherwise it's going to like, we, you know, not like from a negative
Speaker:standpoint, but just like when we're having conversations or we, we, things
Speaker:are getting heated or whatever, like that, it's just kind of like, okay,
Speaker:that's just let you know, that's kind of getting into personal territory.
Speaker:We, I know you didn't mean it that way, but let's, kind of rephrase
Speaker:it or Let's talk about something else or something like that.
Speaker:So that is where I'm looking.
Speaker:Yeah, no, and that's just something new, right.
Speaker:Is, you know, we're getting new experience, new
Speaker:perspective every single day.
Speaker:And so we're evolving as who we are, that it's like having those.
Speaker:Um, communication boundaries as far as like, okay, like when it's hitting
Speaker:a personal note and maybe I'm working through something personal or he's
Speaker:working through something, something personal and what I said triggered
Speaker:that and it's like, I need to respect that he's working through that and
Speaker:it's like, okay, let's rephrase.
Speaker:Or let's take a break or let's come back or whatever.
Speaker:And, um, I think that's just, I think that's a marriage too.
Speaker:Oh, yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And, and, and how you describe that, I mean,
Speaker:Oh
Speaker:is like, I'm feeling this way rather than you made me feel, right?
Speaker:And, and, and it's totally different energy.
Speaker:And if it's, I'm feeling, and I need, I need to take a break
Speaker:from this subject for now, right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Wow, okay, you know, I mean that that is that brings out the caring of the other
Speaker:person and that's you know Where your relationship then can really come in?
Speaker:In corporate they're gonna like so what what?
Speaker:right So what about what you're feeling we got jobs to do get over
Speaker:it and there's 12 people standing behind you ready for your position
Speaker:Oh Yeah, and we've worked a lot on on communication in as far as what what words
Speaker:mean Because what, what a word, I think, would mean one thing, Um, he would come
Speaker:along going, Where did you get that from?
Speaker:No, that's not, you know, no, it means this.
Speaker:So then we go to the dictionary and go, okay.
Speaker:This is, let's go the synonyms and let's go through it.
Speaker:And then we finally go, all right, we can agree on that one.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And that doesn't happen every day, but, it's a great illustration
Speaker:of how much we behave to the meanings of the words that we have.
Speaker:And, and, and just like we're speaking the same language, basically
Speaker:languages, we've agreed that this, this collection of sounds is a word
Speaker:and the word means this, right?
Speaker:But, but sometimes.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:people have very different meanings for and it may be like you were
Speaker:saying something from something in the past You know, I say dog, right?
Speaker:And if you're thinking A German Shepherd that was snarling at you and I'm thinking
Speaker:a little Chihuahua, you know lifting its leg on the whatever very different mental
Speaker:pictures very different emotional reaction to that memory and And so the conversation
Speaker:can go sideways and you don't even, unless you ask, you don't know that you're
Speaker:using different definitions for the word.
Speaker:And West Coast is different from East Coast.
Speaker:Because we've lived in the West Coast, and we've lived the majority of our
Speaker:time here in the East Coast, but still the words don't sometimes translate.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:They're different.
Speaker:And so, it's, it's always fascinating.
Speaker:We love language.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I think we're getting time.
Speaker:We are, yeah, getting close to time.
Speaker:Yeah, you need to go.
Speaker:You've got to go.
Speaker:This has been amazing.
Speaker:Thank you so much for spending this time with us.
Speaker:I want to make sure we put in the show notes how to reach you guys.
Speaker:So thank you again for spending this time with us and we will look
Speaker:forward to a future conversation.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Thank you very much.
Speaker:Thanks for having us.
Speaker:Bye.
