John: 00:00:00

I'm doing a series of profiles

John: 00:00:03

of family businesses, our, our

John: 00:00:06

coaching company that we have Kuder

John: 00:00:08

Consulting Group is is focused.

John: 00:00:11

Our specialty is family businesses because

John: 00:00:13

of our backgrounds in family business.

John: 00:00:15

So it's, you know, we're family, small

John: 00:00:18

family businesses that are growing and,

John: 00:00:19

and, you know, we want to honor, highlight

John: 00:00:22

family business and also explore.

John: 00:00:26

I mean, there are some challenges

John: 00:00:28

that are common in family businesses.

John: 00:00:29

I don't want to put anybody in the

John: 00:00:33

place of feeling like they've got to

John: 00:00:34

air their dirty laundry in public.

John: 00:00:35

So, the purpose is really to just be

John: 00:00:36

a nice profile of the company, but I do

John: 00:00:41

want to touch on the aspects of family.

John: 00:00:44

So, one of the questions I

John: 00:00:45

have had a family bonds, help the

John: 00:00:46

business, you know, things like that.

John: 00:00:48

So, history of the business, how you got

John: 00:00:50

into it, what, what your inspiration was,

John: 00:00:52

I think people would like that because I

John: 00:00:53

think, you know, us small family business

John: 00:00:57

owners feel like we don't get we don't

John: 00:00:58

get the props that we ought to, you know?

John: 00:01:02

So what do you think about that?

Luke: 00:01:04

Sounds good.

Joe: 00:01:05

Yeah.

Joe: 00:01:06

What's up guys.

Joe: 00:01:07

Can you hear me?

Joe: 00:01:08

Yes, sir.

Joe: 00:01:08

Excellent.

John: 00:01:09

Gotcha.

John: 00:01:10

Got your Yeti mic and

John: 00:01:11

your pop screen there.

John: 00:01:13

I love it.

Joe: 00:01:14

Oh yeah, my little podcast room here.

John: 00:01:18

So what inspired you guys to start

Joe: 00:01:20

this business?

Joe: 00:01:21

Well, Luke and I grew up

Joe: 00:01:23

fishing our whole lives.

Joe: 00:01:25

And when we got a little bit older,

Joe: 00:01:26

meaning like out of college and

Joe: 00:01:29

real world hit us, you know, you

Joe: 00:01:31

realize how precious your time is.

Joe: 00:01:34

And for us fishermen, people who love

Joe: 00:01:36

to go out and catch fish, it became a

Joe: 00:01:39

whole lot tougher than it was in our.

Joe: 00:01:41

You know, teenage years in our

Joe: 00:01:42

twenties to spend all day out

Joe: 00:01:44

there, just trying to figure it out.

Joe: 00:01:45

And we realized pretty quickly that

Joe: 00:01:47

we needed some help and there, there

Joe: 00:01:49

was a problem though, and any small

Joe: 00:01:51

business, anyone listening to this,

Joe: 00:01:53

you know, don't start a business

Joe: 00:01:54

unless there's a problem, right?

Joe: 00:01:55

You, you know, you need to solve a

Joe: 00:01:57

problem before you can create a customer.

Joe: 00:01:58

And what we kept going back to is

Joe: 00:02:01

there was no one teaching how to go out

Joe: 00:02:03

there and consistently find the fish.

Joe: 00:02:06

You know, you had fishing magazines

Joe: 00:02:08

and you had fishing TV shows and

Joe: 00:02:10

even YouTube had just got started.

Joe: 00:02:13

You know, YouTube has blown up really

Joe: 00:02:14

in the last five, six years, but

Joe: 00:02:16

those were kind of the three things,

Joe: 00:02:17

but they're all sponsor driven

Joe: 00:02:18

and advertisement driven and, and,

Joe: 00:02:20

and very biased towards one thing.

Joe: 00:02:22

But, but more importantly, they

Joe: 00:02:24

left out like the most important

Joe: 00:02:25

piece, which was the trends, right?

Joe: 00:02:27

Like actually.

Joe: 00:02:28

teaching people, because last time I

Joe: 00:02:30

checked, fish have tails and no fences.

Joe: 00:02:32

They're not just sitting

Joe: 00:02:33

in one spot all year long.

Joe: 00:02:34

They're moving back and

Joe: 00:02:35

forth with the tides.

Joe: 00:02:36

They're moving through seasons.

Joe: 00:02:37

They go out and spawn and no one was

Joe: 00:02:39

teaching everything from beginning to end.

Joe: 00:02:43

And so Luke and I had always dreamed

Joe: 00:02:44

about having a fishing company and it

Joe: 00:02:45

kind of hit us like, why don't we just

Joe: 00:02:47

create everything that we wish was around

Joe: 00:02:50

when we were struggling to catch fish?

Joe: 00:02:52

And it boiled down to that one word,

Joe: 00:02:54

the trends about, you know, helping

Joe: 00:02:56

people find fish fast based on trends

Joe: 00:02:59

and filling in all the gaps that

Joe: 00:03:01

are, that are missing out there from

Joe: 00:03:03

fishing magazines, TV shows, et cetera.

Joe: 00:03:06

And it took off, you know, we had

Joe: 00:03:08

a hundred people join our club.

Joe: 00:03:09

It's, it's a, it's a subscription.

Joe: 00:03:10

It's a membership to get all of our

Joe: 00:03:12

content and cheat sheets and courses and

Joe: 00:03:15

all this great stuff to find the fish.

Joe: 00:03:18

A hundred people joined

Joe: 00:03:18

then 500, a thousand.

Joe: 00:03:20

I remember we hit 2000, we're like high

Joe: 00:03:21

fiving and then we hit 5,000 and then

Joe: 00:03:24

we hit 10,000 and we were like, man,

Joe: 00:03:25

pinching ourselves still are to this day.

Joe: 00:03:28

And now it's at 25,000, I think

Joe: 00:03:30

it's 26,000 to be precise.

Joe: 00:03:32

You know, members are, are now

Joe: 00:03:33

paying to be part of this club.

Joe: 00:03:35

And it, it's just been really,

Joe: 00:03:37

really cool and it's turned

Joe: 00:03:38

into our own little family.

Joe: 00:03:39

So we're, we're, we're pleased as

Joe: 00:03:41

punch and, and, and just, Like I

Joe: 00:03:43

said, pinching ourselves every day.

Luke: 00:03:45

Yeah.

Luke: 00:03:45

The, yeah, the key thing was just that,

Luke: 00:03:46

that gap, the problem that somebody

Luke: 00:03:49

new to fishing, they didn't have a one

Luke: 00:03:51

stop shop to go to, to take them from

Luke: 00:03:54

wherever they are, whether they're total

Luke: 00:03:55

beginner or they're gone out at a handful

Luke: 00:03:57

of times, or even we have now full time

Luke: 00:03:59

guides joining, but to go out and catch

Luke: 00:04:01

fish, cause we have tips on, on, on live

Luke: 00:04:03

bait, which is what most people use, but

Luke: 00:04:05

also artificial lures, a lot of people

Luke: 00:04:07

don't think that, that, that they can

Luke: 00:04:09

catch good saltwater fish with lures.

Luke: 00:04:11

And that's not true at all.

Luke: 00:04:12

Like saltwater fish are very aggressive.

Luke: 00:04:14

And as long as you know, the trends

Luke: 00:04:15

on where they are, and then just

Luke: 00:04:17

know a handful of good lures, you

Luke: 00:04:18

can go out there and catch a ton.

Luke: 00:04:19

So we just put together the full recipe.

Luke: 00:04:22

Like Joe mentioned, the

Luke: 00:04:23

magazines are helpful.

Luke: 00:04:24

YouTube's helpful.

Luke: 00:04:26

The TV shows are helpful, but

Luke: 00:04:28

they're, they're all fragmented.

Luke: 00:04:29

The, the, like none of them have the

Luke: 00:04:31

entire recipe where you can just go there.

Luke: 00:04:33

And then and quickly get

Luke: 00:04:36

from point A to point B.

Luke: 00:04:37

And so that's really the problem

Luke: 00:04:38

that we solve with people's time

Luke: 00:04:40

is just going out and not having

Luke: 00:04:42

to try to put it all together.

Luke: 00:04:43

Because in many cases you hear one

Luke: 00:04:45

recipe, you get a bit of one recipe

Luke: 00:04:46

here, a bit of another one recipe here,

Luke: 00:04:49

and they don't work together at all.

Luke: 00:04:50

So, so that's really been the.

Luke: 00:04:52

Just the major, major thing is just

Luke: 00:04:54

solving fishermen's time issue.

John: 00:04:57

That's beautiful.

John: 00:04:58

I, you, you guys hit on two things that

John: 00:05:01

tr when you said trends, you, you're

John: 00:05:03

not talking about marketplace trends.

John: 00:05:04

You're talking about the, like the, the

John: 00:05:06

trends of how the fish are, you know,

John: 00:05:08

the, the cyclical and seasonal trends

John: 00:05:12

of fish living their lives, right?

Joe: 00:05:14

Yeah.

Joe: 00:05:14

And we came from, you know, the

Joe: 00:05:15

financial world and you had trends

Joe: 00:05:17

there as well to your point.

Joe: 00:05:19

And with anything, any kind of business

Joe: 00:05:21

and industry, you have different trends

Joe: 00:05:22

and the same with fishing, right?

Joe: 00:05:24

Our trends happen to be, you know,

Joe: 00:05:25

weather dependent and tides, you

Joe: 00:05:27

know, and for saltwater fishing

Joe: 00:05:28

in particular, you have tides.

Joe: 00:05:30

And so it's all based on those types

Joe: 00:05:31

of trends and just like the stocks.

Joe: 00:05:34

And, and and really anything

Joe: 00:05:36

that kind of follows cycles and

Joe: 00:05:38

trends, it can become predictable.

Joe: 00:05:40

It doesn't mean like, you know,

Joe: 00:05:41

just like stocks, no one just

Joe: 00:05:42

picks a winner every time you

Joe: 00:05:43

can't pick a perfect fishing spot.

Joe: 00:05:45

But once you study trends and realize

Joe: 00:05:48

like that is the magic bullet.

Joe: 00:05:50

Takes a little while, but once you

Joe: 00:05:52

kind of get that, which is why we teach

Joe: 00:05:53

it, and we, we harp on it so much,

Joe: 00:05:55

it just makes fishing so much more

Joe: 00:05:57

easier and enjoyable and, and which

Joe: 00:06:00

it ties in our whole mission, right?

Joe: 00:06:01

Is bringing people together and

Joe: 00:06:02

having fun and creating memories.

Joe: 00:06:04

We realized pretty quickly, I mean,

Joe: 00:06:06

kind of like Disney world, right?

Joe: 00:06:08

They're not a theme park.

Joe: 00:06:08

I mean, they're like a

Joe: 00:06:09

memory creating machine.

Joe: 00:06:10

I mean, that's, that's really what

Joe: 00:06:12

a lot of people look at is, man, I

Joe: 00:06:13

created these amazing memories I paid.

Joe: 00:06:15

10 times more than I wanted to at Disney,

Joe: 00:06:17

but I made these amazing memories with

Joe: 00:06:18

my family and that's, that's really

Joe: 00:06:20

become our big goal and mission.

Joe: 00:06:22

It's what kind of gets us fired up every

Joe: 00:06:24

morning is when we get testimonials,

Joe: 00:06:25

which come in almost every day now

Joe: 00:06:27

of someone saying, thank you guys,

Joe: 00:06:30

because of what I learned in this club.

Joe: 00:06:31

I just went out and caught, you know, my

Joe: 00:06:33

first red fish or I got my little nine

Joe: 00:06:35

year old daughter on her first fish ever.

Joe: 00:06:37

My son's been begging me fishing

Joe: 00:06:38

and I failed him five times and

Joe: 00:06:40

I finally did it because you

Joe: 00:06:41

guys like that, that's awesome.

Joe: 00:06:43

Like that, that's what gets us going.

Joe: 00:06:45

Cause it's not about catching a

Joe: 00:06:46

state record or anything like that.

Joe: 00:06:48

It's just about going out and

Joe: 00:06:49

having fun and creating memories.

Joe: 00:06:51

And if we can shorten that

Joe: 00:06:52

learning curve, just like anyone

Joe: 00:06:54

trying to solve any problem.

Joe: 00:06:55

If you can shorten the curve for

Joe: 00:06:56

someone, you're going to have some,

Joe: 00:06:58

you know, some, some great clients

Joe: 00:07:00

and hopefully some raving fans.

John: 00:07:02

Yeah.

John: 00:07:02

I mean, I can, I can completely relate.

John: 00:07:04

I, I say to people, you know

John: 00:07:06

I don't really enjoy fishing.

John: 00:07:07

I enjoy catching, you know, and that's

John: 00:07:11

if anybody's been spent a day, you know,

John: 00:07:13

going out and getting, spending the whole

John: 00:07:16

day out working their butt off and not

John: 00:07:18

catching anything, it's, it's a lot more

John: 00:07:21

fun when you come home with something

Joe: 00:07:24

A thousand times better.

John: 00:07:25

I totally get that.

John: 00:07:27

And so you guys were kind of your

John: 00:07:28

own, your perfect avatar, right?

John: 00:07:30

You, you, I think what you said

John: 00:07:33

was we wanted to solve the problem

John: 00:07:35

that we had and, and it, it was a

John: 00:07:38

problem that a lot of people shared.

Luke: 00:07:41

Yeah, we've walked through it.

Luke: 00:07:42

We learned the hard way ourselves and

Luke: 00:07:44

we basically built it to be something

Luke: 00:07:46

that we wish we had when we started.

Luke: 00:07:47

And so that was, that was really the kind

Luke: 00:07:49

of the foundation, you know, what, you

Luke: 00:07:52

know, based on every decision we have

Luke: 00:07:53

is, is this going to help our members

Luke: 00:07:55

just catch more fish or have more fun

Luke: 00:07:57

and do it as efficiently as possible?

Luke: 00:07:59

If the answer is no, we don't do it.

Luke: 00:08:00

So that's, that's really

Luke: 00:08:02

been the foundation.

Luke: 00:08:02

Just make it as easy as possible and

Luke: 00:08:05

as easily consumable as possible.

Luke: 00:08:06

That includes the tech stack too.

Luke: 00:08:07

That's been a big thing.

Luke: 00:08:08

It is online based.

Luke: 00:08:09

So we've had to invest a lot of

Luke: 00:08:11

money in the tech stack, and we're,

Luke: 00:08:12

we're still doing that recent, we're

Luke: 00:08:13

doing a big upgrade now just again,

Luke: 00:08:15

just to make it as seamless and

Luke: 00:08:16

effortless as possible for members.

John: 00:08:19

So tech stack, you're talking about

John: 00:08:21

what you use to build the courses, record

John: 00:08:23

them, how you serve them up, all that,

Joe: 00:08:25

Our community that

Joe: 00:08:26

includes their community, right?

Joe: 00:08:27

Because that's a big part of it is,

Joe: 00:08:29

you know, people are wherever my

Joe: 00:08:30

phone is, or they're on their phones,

Joe: 00:08:32

you know, actually sharing their

Joe: 00:08:34

fishing pictures and asking questions.

Joe: 00:08:35

So that's a big, a big,

Joe: 00:08:36

a really big part of it.

Joe: 00:08:37

And then getting the courses

Joe: 00:08:39

and being able to pick out the

Joe: 00:08:40

lures and the tackle they want.

Joe: 00:08:42

It's regardless, I read a book

Joe: 00:08:44

recently that was, you know,

Joe: 00:08:45

published in the last 12 months.

Joe: 00:08:47

And it, it made a case at the end

Joe: 00:08:50

that no matter what business you're

Joe: 00:08:51

in, you're in the tech business.

Joe: 00:08:52

I mean, right.

Joe: 00:08:53

We're doing Zoom.

Joe: 00:08:53

This is considered tech.

Joe: 00:08:55

No matter what you're doing, even

Joe: 00:08:56

if you're selling cupcakes in one

Joe: 00:08:58

city in Winter Haven, Florida.

Joe: 00:09:00

You still hopefully have a

Joe: 00:09:01

website where people can go order

Joe: 00:09:03

or pre purchase or do pick up.

Joe: 00:09:04

I mean, you're still in the

Joe: 00:09:05

tech industry this day and age.

Joe: 00:09:07

And so we didn't really, we didn't

Joe: 00:09:09

really see that in the beginning.

Joe: 00:09:11

And now it's becoming

Joe: 00:09:12

more and more evident.

Joe: 00:09:13

And every time we do, and every time

Joe: 00:09:14

we invest a little bit more in tech.

Joe: 00:09:16

We get more people and they share

Joe: 00:09:17

it because it's, it's, we make

Joe: 00:09:19

it easier for them to use it.

Joe: 00:09:20

So I would highly advise anyone listening

Joe: 00:09:23

outside of all the family stuff, you

Joe: 00:09:24

know, to, to invest in tech when it makes

Joe: 00:09:27

sense, obviously don't just waste money

Joe: 00:09:29

on it, but if you can make it easier

Joe: 00:09:31

for your customers to interact with

Joe: 00:09:33

you and to purchase from you and and

Joe: 00:09:35

to get things done and customer service

Joe: 00:09:36

interaction, it makes it so much easier.

Luke: 00:09:39

And I'll show an example.

Luke: 00:09:40

This is a tides, right?

Luke: 00:09:41

Tides, tide charts have been something

Luke: 00:09:43

that have been around forever, right?

Luke: 00:09:44

Or at least not forever, but

Luke: 00:09:45

for a very long time, but we

Luke: 00:09:46

just made it easier, right?

Luke: 00:09:47

We, we just obviously show the tide

Luke: 00:09:49

chart, but we give the days like the

Luke: 00:09:51

upcoming days, what days are most likely

Luke: 00:09:53

going to have the best, the best feeding

Luke: 00:09:54

activity based on the tides, based

Luke: 00:09:55

on the weather, based on the trends.

Luke: 00:09:57

Then we have the tide chart and the graph,

Luke: 00:09:59

and then below that we even have by day.

Luke: 00:10:01

When's the best bite going to be?

Luke: 00:10:02

So right now is actually

Luke: 00:10:03

a pretty good bite.

Luke: 00:10:04

So I might, I might be going to

Joe: 00:10:05

hurry up and yeah,

Joe: 00:10:06

end this thing quick,

Luke: 00:10:08

but it's just all about just

Luke: 00:10:09

making, just making the customer's

Luke: 00:10:11

lives or really client's lives as

Luke: 00:10:13

easy, and as efficient as possible.

Luke: 00:10:15

So that's, that's been

Luke: 00:10:16

our goal for everything.

John: 00:10:18

So I know one of the questions

John: 00:10:20

I had was what is, what's your, what

John: 00:10:22

sets you apart from the competition?

John: 00:10:24

You know, a lot of businesses I

John: 00:10:25

think, you know, may struggle a little

John: 00:10:27

bit with, you know, unique selling

John: 00:10:28

proposition or what makes them different.

John: 00:10:30

You know, especially somebody maybe in

John: 00:10:31

the service industry or, you know, I mean,

John: 00:10:33

I, I sell air conditioners or whatever.

John: 00:10:36

How do you guys, do you

John: 00:10:38

guys have any competition?

John: 00:10:39

I mean, you're kind of different

John: 00:10:40

from a service based business.

Joe: 00:10:42

Yeah.

Joe: 00:10:43

Well, I mean, we, we purposely,

Joe: 00:10:45

you created something that, that

Joe: 00:10:47

was kind of, you know, different.

Joe: 00:10:49

Right.

Joe: 00:10:50

And not to say, cause we,

Joe: 00:10:51

everyone has some competition.

Joe: 00:10:52

There's been some smaller groups

Joe: 00:10:54

that have tried to take on, you know,

Joe: 00:10:56

certain segments of, of fishing.

Joe: 00:10:59

Like, you know, we're saltwater fishing

Joe: 00:11:00

Salt Strong is the name of the company.

Joe: 00:11:03

And so right now we're

Joe: 00:11:04

basically Texas to Virginia.

Joe: 00:11:05

There's been a couple and a few

Joe: 00:11:07

random states, but for the most part,

Joe: 00:11:08

our competition in terms of, of how

Joe: 00:11:11

to, and education has been what we

Joe: 00:11:13

started the, the interview off with.

Joe: 00:11:14

It's been fishing magazines and

Joe: 00:11:17

TV shows and kind of YouTube.

Joe: 00:11:19

So that that's kind of our competition

Joe: 00:11:21

is, is making people see, and usually

Joe: 00:11:24

they do pretty quickly because they've

Joe: 00:11:25

tried all those things, those things.

Joe: 00:11:26

They're not where they want to

Joe: 00:11:28

be when it comes to fishing.

Joe: 00:11:30

So what really made us stand out,

Joe: 00:11:32

like you're talking about like a USP

Joe: 00:11:34

unique selling proposition, something

Joe: 00:11:36

that's like simple and memorable

Joe: 00:11:38

and also kind of like, Oh, wow.

Joe: 00:11:40

How like the elevator pitch and it

Joe: 00:11:42

started, it's, it's morphed over the

Joe: 00:11:43

years, but it started off because

Joe: 00:11:45

we want people want to catch fish.

Joe: 00:11:47

Right.

Joe: 00:11:47

So it started off saying, we'll

Joe: 00:11:48

help you catch more fish in

Joe: 00:11:50

less time, or you don't pay.

Joe: 00:11:51

It's free.

Joe: 00:11:52

And then we even went as far as

Joe: 00:11:53

we'll double your money back.

Joe: 00:11:55

So we did that for awhile and

Joe: 00:11:56

that got people's attention.

Joe: 00:11:58

Cause like, wait a minute.

Joe: 00:11:59

It's like, yeah.

Joe: 00:11:59

So if you stick with this a year and you

Joe: 00:12:01

don't feel like you're catching more fish,

Joe: 00:12:03

not only would give you your a hundred

Joe: 00:12:04

bucks, that's the annual 97 for the year.

Joe: 00:12:07

will literally double it.

Joe: 00:12:09

And so now people are like,

Joe: 00:12:10

okay, I have literally nothing.

Joe: 00:12:12

You know, anytime you can take all the

Joe: 00:12:13

risk off of your, your client and put

Joe: 00:12:16

it on you to deliver whatever promise

Joe: 00:12:18

or service you're making, it just makes

Joe: 00:12:20

it easier to do business with you.

Joe: 00:12:21

And we've had a few, we we've

Joe: 00:12:22

had, you know, some over the years

Joe: 00:12:23

we've had to give money back.

Joe: 00:12:25

I mean, some of them, we almost laugh

Joe: 00:12:26

about I remember this one person, they

Joe: 00:12:28

went the whole year and we obviously, as

Joe: 00:12:30

a tech company can see what emails they've

Joe: 00:12:32

opened, what courses they've been through.

Joe: 00:12:34

They went through nothing.

Joe: 00:12:36

And at the end they said, it was

Joe: 00:12:37

like day 330 and they're like, you

Joe: 00:12:40

know, you guys stink, I've become a

Joe: 00:12:42

worse fisherman because of this club.

Joe: 00:12:44

I won't mind.

Joe: 00:12:45

And we, we gave them their money back.

Joe: 00:12:46

But we also looked like they

Joe: 00:12:48

didn't even, they didn't even try.

Joe: 00:12:49

It's like joining a gym that had a

Joe: 00:12:51

guarantee and not going a single time.

Joe: 00:12:53

And then saying, Hey, I got fat

Joe: 00:12:55

because of your gym kind of laughable.

Joe: 00:12:57

But, but you know, and we do lose some

Joe: 00:12:59

and that's, it was scary at first.

Joe: 00:13:00

Right.

Joe: 00:13:00

Remember Luke.

Joe: 00:13:01

When we first did it, we're like,

Joe: 00:13:02

man, we're going to lose our butts.

Joe: 00:13:03

People are, but no, if you have a great

Joe: 00:13:05

service or product and you believe

Joe: 00:13:07

in it, put the biggest, boldest,

Joe: 00:13:08

baddest, scariest guarantee out there.

Joe: 00:13:11

And, and, and people will start

Joe: 00:13:13

flocking to you because of it.

Joe: 00:13:14

And you got to be able

Joe: 00:13:16

to back it up, obviously.

Joe: 00:13:17

And and we did.

Joe: 00:13:18

And so it's out of the 26, 000 people.

Joe: 00:13:20

I mean, we get, you know, a couple of

Joe: 00:13:22

year, we'll ask for their money back.

Joe: 00:13:23

And it's various reasons,

Joe: 00:13:25

sometimes just financial.

Joe: 00:13:26

Hey, we're literally broke

Joe: 00:13:28

and need our money back.

Joe: 00:13:28

And, you know, we obviously

Joe: 00:13:30

do that pretty quickly.

Joe: 00:13:31

So that that's really been the overall

Joe: 00:13:33

USP is what makes us difference is the

Joe: 00:13:35

focus on helping you find and catch

Joe: 00:13:38

the fist faster than ever before.

Joe: 00:13:40

or you don't pay.

Joe: 00:13:41

It's that simple.

Joe: 00:13:42

And now we, yeah, now we talk,

Joe: 00:13:44

you know, we've tied in tackle

Joe: 00:13:46

where they get tackle discounts.

Joe: 00:13:47

And so we've, we've made it a little

Joe: 00:13:49

bit more even attractive where not

Joe: 00:13:51

only can we help you find the fish, but

Joe: 00:13:53

we'll give you, you know, 20 to even 30

Joe: 00:13:55

percent off, off your tackle as well.

Joe: 00:13:57

Kind of like kind of like a Costco

Joe: 00:13:58

membership is probably the best analogy

Joe: 00:14:00

where, you know, you're, you're paying

Joe: 00:14:01

a hundred bucks or whatever it is to be

Joe: 00:14:03

a Costco member and you get access to

Joe: 00:14:05

their products and discounts, but we have

Joe: 00:14:07

a little bit more with, with the whole

Joe: 00:14:09

club in terms of the, the how to videos.

Joe: 00:14:11

So it's, it's, it's really been fun.

Joe: 00:14:14

And, and a lot of that, I, I would

Joe: 00:14:16

urge people, cause I remember

Joe: 00:14:17

Luke and I got kind of I mean,

Joe: 00:14:20

we, we had some, not a knockout.

Joe: 00:14:23

Punches, but you know, that, that calls

Joe: 00:14:25

definitely a lot of internal discussions

Joe: 00:14:28

and grief and confusion because we

Joe: 00:14:30

never really had that thing nailed down.

Joe: 00:14:32

And we felt like we had

Joe: 00:14:33

to have it nailed down.

Joe: 00:14:34

So I would urge people like start with

Joe: 00:14:35

something, throw it out there and, you

Joe: 00:14:37

know, and get feedback from people like,

Joe: 00:14:39

man, it's not really that attractive.

Joe: 00:14:40

I don't really understand it.

Joe: 00:14:42

But as soon as we just started saying,

Joe: 00:14:43

yeah, we help you, John, we help you

Joe: 00:14:45

catch more fish or you don't pay.

Joe: 00:14:47

Really like how you, you can't

Joe: 00:14:49

just end a conversation like that.

Joe: 00:14:50

You're curious like, well, how

Joe: 00:14:51

do you, how do you do that?

Joe: 00:14:52

And so all of a sudden

Joe: 00:14:53

now we got your attention.

Joe: 00:14:54

And so once again, it changes over time.

Joe: 00:14:56

But I, I would urge people

Joe: 00:14:57

to definitely have one.

Joe: 00:14:59

You gotta have one that, that set

Joe: 00:15:00

you, sets you apart from everyone

Joe: 00:15:01

else, but two, you know, play around

Joe: 00:15:03

with it and, and don't be afraid

Joe: 00:15:04

to change it as as you evolve.

Luke: 00:15:07

Yeah, no telling how

Luke: 00:15:08

many of those we went through.

Luke: 00:15:08

We, we, especially in the early years,

Luke: 00:15:11

the business was pivoting basically

Luke: 00:15:13

every month because you're right.

Luke: 00:15:14

We tried something.

Luke: 00:15:15

Okay.

Luke: 00:15:15

It doesn't work.

Luke: 00:15:16

Try something else.

Luke: 00:15:16

It doesn't work.

Luke: 00:15:17

Try another thing and just got to keep

Luke: 00:15:19

doing it until, until the market will

Luke: 00:15:22

let you know when it's good or when

Luke: 00:15:24

it's not, you can't force a bad thing.

Luke: 00:15:25

That's another, another thing that we

Luke: 00:15:27

we've learned the hard way as well.

Luke: 00:15:29

But yeah,

John: 00:15:30

How do you mean you

John: 00:15:30

can't force a bad thing?

John: 00:15:32

Sorry.

John: 00:15:33

When you say I can't, you

John: 00:15:34

can't force a bad thing.

John: 00:15:35

You mean.

John: 00:15:35

You just gotta let the market

John: 00:15:37

tell you if it's right or not.

Luke: 00:15:38

Yeah, like we tried

Luke: 00:15:39

apparel for a while and

John: 00:15:41

I was going to ask about that.

Luke: 00:15:42

And so, yeah, that was just a really

Luke: 00:15:44

tough thing for a small group who doesn't

Luke: 00:15:46

have the big, the big margins like these,

Luke: 00:15:49

you know, when you're buying huge books

Luke: 00:15:50

like the, like the big big companies do.

Luke: 00:15:53

I mean, it's a really tough

Luke: 00:15:54

industry and, and if we had, we

Luke: 00:15:57

kept going down that route, there's

Luke: 00:15:59

no way we'd still be in business.

Luke: 00:16:01

It's a, you can't just force it.

Joe: 00:16:03

One of the best pieces of advice

Joe: 00:16:06

we got is from Ryan Dyess who's

Joe: 00:16:08

the founder of Digital Marketer.

Joe: 00:16:10

And, and we were at a conference

Joe: 00:16:12

there where where he was, he was

Joe: 00:16:14

the guy speaking and just talking.

Joe: 00:16:16

And he said, guys, what I found over

Joe: 00:16:18

and over again, from owning multiple

Joe: 00:16:19

businesses and in consulting and

Joe: 00:16:22

just seeing the problems that we all

Joe: 00:16:23

have in small businesses especially,

Joe: 00:16:26

is usually it's an offer problem.

Joe: 00:16:29

And so what Luke was basically

Joe: 00:16:30

saying is you, you can't put a crappy

Joe: 00:16:32

offer out there and just expect to

Joe: 00:16:34

like spend more Facebook ads on it

Joe: 00:16:36

or put more lipstick on the pig.

Joe: 00:16:37

And it's just going to get better.

Joe: 00:16:38

It, it rarely does that happen.

Joe: 00:16:41

And we were all guilty.

Joe: 00:16:42

We did it so many times like, Oh

Joe: 00:16:43

man, I know this is a good offer.

Joe: 00:16:45

We're just going to

Joe: 00:16:45

spend more money on it.

Joe: 00:16:47

And we're like, Oh man, we should

Joe: 00:16:48

have just gone with our gut and

Joe: 00:16:50

probably fix the offer a little bit.

Joe: 00:16:52

You know, you, it's, it's that

Joe: 00:16:54

whole lipstick on a, on a pig.

Joe: 00:16:55

You can't just keep putting more

Joe: 00:16:57

and more at some point you need to

Joe: 00:16:58

look and sorry, this offer is not

Joe: 00:17:00

attracting the people it should.

Joe: 00:17:01

We know it's good.

Joe: 00:17:02

We need to tweak it just a little bit.

Joe: 00:17:04

And, and that, that's been, man, that's

Joe: 00:17:06

been a godsend for us because we, we, in

Joe: 00:17:08

the beginning, we spent so, we wasted so

Joe: 00:17:11

much money doing just the opposite, right?

Joe: 00:17:13

We'd have something that

Joe: 00:17:14

we thought was cool.

Joe: 00:17:15

The market didn't agree and we just keep

Joe: 00:17:17

trying to spend more money on it and

Joe: 00:17:19

jam it down people's throat even more.

Joe: 00:17:21

And it didn't work.

Joe: 00:17:22

And it wasn't until we really sat

Joe: 00:17:23

back and really just listened,

Joe: 00:17:25

you know, you don't have to have

Joe: 00:17:26

25, 000 customers or clients to.

Joe: 00:17:30

To get advice.

Joe: 00:17:30

You could have two you can have one

Joe: 00:17:32

and just have a one on one to go

Joe: 00:17:34

take them out to lunch and, you know,

Joe: 00:17:35

get some, get some honest feedback.

Joe: 00:17:37

Hey, what is, what are the

Joe: 00:17:38

real challenges deep down?

Joe: 00:17:40

What are you struggling with?

Joe: 00:17:41

And, and how can I, how

Joe: 00:17:42

can I fix this for you?

Joe: 00:17:44

And usually if you can find one

Joe: 00:17:45

person, you can find two and if

Joe: 00:17:46

you can find two, you can find

Joe: 00:17:47

10 and and so on and so forth.

John: 00:17:51

Wow.

John: 00:17:51

Yeah, that there's a real nugget

John: 00:17:52

there that, you know, you, you can't

John: 00:17:55

the answer to an offer that's not

John: 00:17:57

converting is not a bigger audience.

Joe: 00:17:59

Definitely not.

Joe: 00:18:01

It's a different offer altogether.

John: 00:18:05

Very cool.

John: 00:18:05

Yeah.

Joe: 00:18:06

And, and, and I'll just kind

Joe: 00:18:08

of tell you too, cause I know when I

Joe: 00:18:09

listen to podcasts or videos, I'm like,

Joe: 00:18:11

all right, well, give me an example

Joe: 00:18:13

that here's a great example, fishing.

Joe: 00:18:16

Health doesn't really matter.

Joe: 00:18:18

There's always something that people want.

Joe: 00:18:21

And Luke touched on earlier,

Joe: 00:18:22

it's usually time, right?

Joe: 00:18:24

We all want something faster

Joe: 00:18:25

than than we deserve it.

Joe: 00:18:27

Many cases, right?

Joe: 00:18:28

Like we all want to lose 20 tomorrow.

Joe: 00:18:30

We don't want to have to wait

Joe: 00:18:31

the 60 days it really takes.

Joe: 00:18:33

And if you're in the weight

Joe: 00:18:34

loss market, what do you think

Joe: 00:18:35

is going to sell more, right?

Joe: 00:18:37

An accountability coach and you know, 60

Joe: 00:18:40

or 90 day program on how to lift weights

Joe: 00:18:43

to lose weight or a pill, and it's sad,

Joe: 00:18:46

but true that the pill will work better.

Joe: 00:18:48

So it's, it's kind of, you know, give them

Joe: 00:18:51

what they, they think they, they want.

Joe: 00:18:53

And then in the back end, you

Joe: 00:18:55

know, or sell them what they want

Joe: 00:18:56

and then give them what they need.

Joe: 00:18:58

And so we used to only lead.

Joe: 00:19:00

With the how to stuff and

Joe: 00:19:01

like the trends, right?

Joe: 00:19:03

And we could say trends

Joe: 00:19:03

to a blue in the face.

Joe: 00:19:04

And most anglers, like fishermen is

Joe: 00:19:06

like, man, I just want to buy a new

Joe: 00:19:07

rod and reel and some fishing lures

Joe: 00:19:09

and some line and hooks and et cetera.

Joe: 00:19:11

So we got so tired of just pushing the

Joe: 00:19:14

how to stuff down people's throats,

Joe: 00:19:17

even though that's what they need.

Joe: 00:19:18

Like, that's the only way you

Joe: 00:19:19

become a great angler is if you

Joe: 00:19:20

study and you know the trends.

Joe: 00:19:21

So everyone knows that, but

Joe: 00:19:23

just like working out, they

Joe: 00:19:24

know they need to work out.

Joe: 00:19:25

But they really just kind

Joe: 00:19:26

of want the quick fix.

Joe: 00:19:27

And so as soon as we kind of flipped

Joe: 00:19:29

it and started, you know, leading

Joe: 00:19:31

with lures, like, Hey, here's a lure.

Joe: 00:19:33

And then as soon as they bought it,

Joe: 00:19:35

we'd almost make fun of ourselves

Joe: 00:19:37

and say, like on the thank you

Joe: 00:19:38

video, guys, here's the deal.

Joe: 00:19:40

You just made a great investment.

Joe: 00:19:41

These are the best lures, but they're

Joe: 00:19:43

not going to help you catch more fish.

Joe: 00:19:44

The only way you're really going

Joe: 00:19:45

to catch more fish is being in

Joe: 00:19:47

the right spot at the right time.

Joe: 00:19:48

And that's why we're helping

Joe: 00:19:49

you out with our insider club.

Joe: 00:19:51

And so we.

Joe: 00:19:52

We sold them what they want at a

Joe: 00:19:53

great price, you know, and in many

Joe: 00:19:55

cases we gave it to them for free.

Joe: 00:19:57

And then on the back end, we

Joe: 00:19:58

gave them what they really need.

Joe: 00:20:00

And that's how we really

Joe: 00:20:01

blew up this business.

Joe: 00:20:02

Cause people, you know, they're used

Joe: 00:20:04

to getting a lure and they get mad,

Joe: 00:20:05

which is why they go buy new lures

Joe: 00:20:07

and, and they always kind of want to

Joe: 00:20:08

blame it on the lure and it's usually,

Joe: 00:20:10

it's usually a lack of knowledge

Joe: 00:20:12

and intel on how to find the fish.

Joe: 00:20:15

And so as soon as we started giving

Joe: 00:20:17

them what they thought they, they

Joe: 00:20:18

needed, and then on the back end really

Joe: 00:20:21

served them up exactly what they need,

Joe: 00:20:23

what they truly need that we exploded.

Joe: 00:20:26

And we really created a cool community

Joe: 00:20:28

of people that, that love and

Joe: 00:20:30

like, and trust us and want to keep

Joe: 00:20:31

renewing their membership every year.

Joe: 00:20:33

So it's that would be a good example

Joe: 00:20:35

of sometimes taking a step back

Joe: 00:20:37

and saying, all right, if this

Joe: 00:20:38

isn't working, maybe we should lead

Joe: 00:20:40

with a slightly different offer.

John: 00:20:43

Very cool.

John: 00:20:44

Thank you.

John: 00:20:45

So I want to, I want to make sure we get

John: 00:20:48

into the family part of it a little bit.

John: 00:20:49

So there's a lot of different family

John: 00:20:51

structures, you know, many business I came

John: 00:20:53

from, you know, I was third generation.

John: 00:20:55

So I wasn't a founder.

John: 00:20:56

And that's, you know, that's one

John: 00:20:57

structure and it has its own challenges.

John: 00:20:59

Other, you know, there's a lot of

John: 00:21:01

husband and wife teams out there.

John: 00:21:02

Out here in Tampa, they're running

John: 00:21:03

businesses, but when Buddy Brews,

John: 00:21:06

you know, one of the big coffee

John: 00:21:07

companies here that husband and

John: 00:21:08

wife, two brothers is another.

John: 00:21:11

And and that's I don't

John: 00:21:13

see it as, as as common.

John: 00:21:14

It may be more common than I realized,

John: 00:21:16

but did you guys always dream

John: 00:21:18

about going into business together?

John: 00:21:19

And how has your brother

John: 00:21:22

relationship worked to strengthen

John: 00:21:25

the business?

Joe: 00:21:26

Yeah, I would say we have,

Joe: 00:21:28

that was kind of a, remember

Joe: 00:21:29

it was Gasparilla Island.

Joe: 00:21:30

That was kind of my first memory

Joe: 00:21:31

of it, where we always talked about

Joe: 00:21:33

how cool would it be to do something

Joe: 00:21:34

together in the fishing world.

Luke: 00:21:36

Yeah.

Luke: 00:21:36

Because we had a trip.

Luke: 00:21:37

It was a trip every year, and it

Luke: 00:21:38

started somehow, our dad let us borrow

Luke: 00:21:41

his boat for like, for a week and,

Luke: 00:21:43

and I'd brought one of my buddies

Luke: 00:21:44

and drove, brought one of his, we

Luke: 00:21:45

rented out this house on the island.

Luke: 00:21:46

You can only get two by boat.

Luke: 00:21:47

And we had just a blast and came back

Luke: 00:21:50

and started telling friends about it and

Luke: 00:21:51

the next year there was eight people.

Luke: 00:21:54

Then the year after that, there was

Luke: 00:21:55

12 and then it got up to 20 got up

Luke: 00:21:56

to 56 was the was the biggest but but

Luke: 00:21:59

it was just so much fun and and it

Luke: 00:22:01

was just fun like a lot of people.

Luke: 00:22:03

Some people met their spouses on those

Luke: 00:22:04

trips, it just bonded a lot of people

Luke: 00:22:06

together and it was a blast and and

Luke: 00:22:09

and yeah I remember just thinking like

Luke: 00:22:10

it would be really cool to somehow.

Luke: 00:22:12

You know, somehow do something

Luke: 00:22:14

together professionally.

Luke: 00:22:15

All right.

Luke: 00:22:15

That we were in college at this

Luke: 00:22:16

point and and it took, it was years

Luke: 00:22:18

after where it, where it actually

Luke: 00:22:19

transpired, but that was, yeah, I agree.

Luke: 00:22:21

That was when the seed was planted.

Joe: 00:22:24

And now, you know,

Joe: 00:22:25

we've been in business.

Joe: 00:22:27

This will be what, seven, six full years.

Joe: 00:22:31

So going to hit your seven, somewhere

Joe: 00:22:33

around there, six, seven years,

Luke: 00:22:34

Almost seven as Salt Strong

Luke: 00:22:35

but then, but then two years before

Luke: 00:22:37

that in the retirement service

Luke: 00:22:38

industry yeah, Joe was doing

Luke: 00:22:40

stuff by himself and doing great.

Luke: 00:22:41

I was in the corporate world for awhile,

Luke: 00:22:43

seeing how much fun Joe was having.

Luke: 00:22:44

And and, and one day he just called me and

Luke: 00:22:46

it's like, it was a really cool experience

Luke: 00:22:48

where get a call from brother and.

Luke: 00:22:51

And he was, you know, I

Luke: 00:22:52

actually need some help.

Luke: 00:22:53

He was growing his business

Luke: 00:22:54

faster than he can keep up with.

Luke: 00:22:56

And I was like in a pretty cush corporate

Luke: 00:22:59

world, but I didn't, I was at a point.

Luke: 00:23:02

I got as high as I could.

Luke: 00:23:03

I was in middle management at a young age.

Luke: 00:23:05

And I couldn't get up to the next

Luke: 00:23:06

level for like 20 years, right?

Luke: 00:23:08

I've been doing the same

Luke: 00:23:09

thing for a long time.

Luke: 00:23:09

And I just didn't really, I

Luke: 00:23:12

wasn't really interested in that.

Luke: 00:23:13

And I was getting less and less

Luke: 00:23:15

interested in, I should say.

Luke: 00:23:16

And then an exciting opportunity came

Luke: 00:23:18

to actually work with my brother.

Luke: 00:23:19

It was in retirement services,

Luke: 00:23:20

which I could care less about, but

Luke: 00:23:22

but it was just a cool opportunity.

Luke: 00:23:23

So I jumped on it.

Luke: 00:23:24

So like, sure, let's do it.

Luke: 00:23:25

And and that was.

Luke: 00:23:26

That was a learning experience.

Luke: 00:23:27

It was great.

Luke: 00:23:28

And then we sold, yeah, sold

Luke: 00:23:29

that company and, and started

Luke: 00:23:31

Salt Strong with those proceeds.

John: 00:23:33

So was that when you guys figured

John: 00:23:34

out you know, each of your, your

John: 00:23:36

strengths and, and how to divide, kind

John: 00:23:38

of divide the, the labor between you?

John: 00:23:40

Is that?

Joe: 00:23:41

Kind of.

Joe: 00:23:41

I, I, I wish we would have known to focus

Joe: 00:23:45

on that quicker because that, that's

Joe: 00:23:47

where the biggest fights happen, right?

Joe: 00:23:48

And that, that's, it's the pros and cons

Joe: 00:23:50

of working with a brother, family member.

Joe: 00:23:53

Is you can get stuff out quicker.

Joe: 00:23:55

Like, you know, you don't have to

Joe: 00:23:56

necessarily like I was in the corporate

Joe: 00:23:58

world, you know, for, for 10 years myself.

Joe: 00:24:00

And I remember I'd, you'd be mad at

Joe: 00:24:02

someone and you couldn't say anything

Joe: 00:24:03

in the office and you didn't want

Joe: 00:24:05

to mess with politics in the office.

Joe: 00:24:07

So you take it home and you'd

Joe: 00:24:08

sleep on it and you get mad and

Joe: 00:24:10

you tell your, your spouse at home.

Joe: 00:24:11

And sometimes it can build up to, to be

Joe: 00:24:14

really bad and, and, and, and keep you

Joe: 00:24:16

unfulfilled and, and and it's not healthy.

Joe: 00:24:20

The good news about Luke and I, and

Joe: 00:24:22

I'm hoping a lot of family members

Joe: 00:24:23

are like this, where we don't have

Joe: 00:24:25

any secrets, we don't hold anything

Joe: 00:24:26

back, and I ain't sleeping on nothing.

Joe: 00:24:28

Like, I get on the phone like, Dude,

Joe: 00:24:29

I'm pissed off, and vice versa.

Joe: 00:24:32

And so we get stuff out quicker, but also,

Joe: 00:24:35

you might say stuff to a family member or

Joe: 00:24:38

a loved one that you might regret, or you

Joe: 00:24:40

say it more aggressively than you would.

Joe: 00:24:42

to be subtle to a nice, you know,

Joe: 00:24:43

co-worker so certainly pros and cons,

Joe: 00:24:46

but back to your question, I think

Joe: 00:24:49

the best advice I could give to anyone

Joe: 00:24:51

would, regardless of the relationship

Joe: 00:24:53

as a family is to figure out what your

Joe: 00:24:55

strength is, like what you're best at.

Joe: 00:24:57

And stay in that lane and get out

Joe: 00:25:00

of the other person's lane, right?

Joe: 00:25:01

Because that was where we butted heads

Joe: 00:25:03

a lot, where he was trying, Luke would

Joe: 00:25:05

try to do something that I was great

Joe: 00:25:06

at, which is like sales and copywriting.

Joe: 00:25:08

And it doesn't mean you don't ask for

Joe: 00:25:10

advice, you do, you're still a team.

Joe: 00:25:12

But, but you don't try

Joe: 00:25:13

to jump in their lane.

Joe: 00:25:14

And you know, obviously don't ever

Joe: 00:25:15

say stay in your lane, you jerk.

Joe: 00:25:17

That doesn't help either.

Joe: 00:25:18

But, but, but seriously though,

Joe: 00:25:20

if you can stay in your lane

Joe: 00:25:21

and just be the absolute best.

Joe: 00:25:23

And then as soon as humanly possible.

Joe: 00:25:26

hire someone who, who fits another

Joe: 00:25:29

weakness that you might have.

Joe: 00:25:30

Right.

Joe: 00:25:31

I think, I think in school, they

Joe: 00:25:33

do one of the biggest disservices.

Joe: 00:25:35

And I don't know, I hate,

Joe: 00:25:37

let me take that back.

Joe: 00:25:38

You know, it's, it's using

Joe: 00:25:39

the word well rounded, right.

Joe: 00:25:40

And, and that was something that our

Joe: 00:25:42

parents taught us is you want to be

Joe: 00:25:43

well rounded and do a lot of this stuff.

Joe: 00:25:44

And I think that's a good way to

Joe: 00:25:46

maybe learn what you're best at.

Joe: 00:25:48

But to do that your entire life, I think

Joe: 00:25:49

is a disservice to it, to a business.

Joe: 00:25:52

It's fine.

Joe: 00:25:53

Like become a specialist, become an

Joe: 00:25:54

expert, become the best at whatever little

Joe: 00:25:56

thing that, that you have definitely

Joe: 00:25:58

give feedback and consult on the other

Joe: 00:26:00

stuff, but become the absolute best.

Joe: 00:26:02

And so I was, you can probably already

Joe: 00:26:04

tell me just by the way I talk and I'm

Joe: 00:26:06

the cheerleader, I'm the visionary.

Joe: 00:26:07

I'm the guy that's come

Joe: 00:26:08

up with crazy ideas.

Joe: 00:26:09

Half of them are horrible

Joe: 00:26:11

or more than half.

Joe: 00:26:11

But some of them are really good.

Joe: 00:26:13

And then we get people to implement it.

Joe: 00:26:14

Luke is not an implementer.

Joe: 00:26:15

Luke is a really good educator.

Joe: 00:26:17

I mean, one of the best ever when he gets

Joe: 00:26:19

in front of a camera, I mean, he's got the

Joe: 00:26:20

trust, he's got the skill and he gets in

Joe: 00:26:23

front of a camera with fishing and people

Joe: 00:26:25

are just like mesmerized and, and, but

Joe: 00:26:27

the problem we did for a couple of years,

Joe: 00:26:29

remember Luke is because we're missing a

Joe: 00:26:31

third piece, right, which is operations.

Joe: 00:26:33

We, we literally, both of us.

Joe: 00:26:34

Absolutely are horrible operations.

Joe: 00:26:37

And that was when the company

Joe: 00:26:38

would go up and then it would tank.

Joe: 00:26:39

Cause Luke would have to get off video.

Joe: 00:26:41

I have to get off doing my stuff and

Joe: 00:26:43

we'd go into operations and doing

Joe: 00:26:45

taxes and all this stupid stuff

Joe: 00:26:46

that we both absolutely dreaded.

Joe: 00:26:48

And as soon as we, we hired that out

Joe: 00:26:50

and got one person that loved that.

Joe: 00:26:52

Like we started taking off and,

Joe: 00:26:55

and I don't even know, like

Joe: 00:26:56

we have a CRM, they won't even

Joe: 00:26:57

give me a username and password.

Joe: 00:26:59

I don't know how to log in, nor do I care.

Joe: 00:27:01

And I haven't logged in probably two or

Joe: 00:27:02

three years, but that's good thing, right?

Joe: 00:27:04

If you have someone that that's not

Joe: 00:27:06

their strength, like get them out

Joe: 00:27:07

of there, stay in their lane and let

Joe: 00:27:09

everyone else do what they're best at.

Joe: 00:27:10

So that I wish someone

Joe: 00:27:12

had told us that earlier.

Joe: 00:27:14

Maybe we heard it, but we didn't

Joe: 00:27:15

take it seriously, but it made

Joe: 00:27:17

all the change in the world.

Joe: 00:27:18

And that first hire, this is something

Joe: 00:27:20

that that Justin Tupper, he was

Joe: 00:27:22

the founder of a company called

Joe: 00:27:24

revolution golf sold for about

Joe: 00:27:26

a hundred or so million dollars.

Joe: 00:27:28

So he did pretty, pretty well,

Joe: 00:27:29

but he said that first person

Joe: 00:27:30

you hire needs to one fit.

Joe: 00:27:33

You know, fit the role that you,

Joe: 00:27:34

you're, you're not good at, right?

Joe: 00:27:35

If it's operations for some

Joe: 00:27:37

people, it's the opposite.

Joe: 00:27:37

It's sales, but they need to,

Joe: 00:27:39

to be the absolute best and

Joe: 00:27:41

they better return a 10 X ROI.

Joe: 00:27:44

So he says, if you pay that, you know,

Joe: 00:27:45

the first person you hire, you might only

Joe: 00:27:46

pay them 40, 000 as a small business.

Joe: 00:27:49

They literally better be helping

Joe: 00:27:50

your company make 400 grand.

Joe: 00:27:52

Like it needs to be that big.

Joe: 00:27:53

And if not get rid of them, like your,

Joe: 00:27:54

your very first employee and your second

Joe: 00:27:57

should be the two most profitable.

Joe: 00:27:58

There is, because it's

Joe: 00:27:59

now letting you focus.

Joe: 00:28:00

And if they're not, like I said, get

Joe: 00:28:01

rid of them or figure out, you know,

Joe: 00:28:03

that maybe you don't have that, that

Joe: 00:28:04

right, that right seat defined yet.

Joe: 00:28:07

But I thought that was good.

Joe: 00:28:08

And he's like, I I've seen that

Joe: 00:28:09

happen over and over again, where

Joe: 00:28:11

someone's like, just good enough.

Joe: 00:28:13

And we did that.

Joe: 00:28:13

Remember, like our first couple of

Joe: 00:28:14

employees were not 10 X type of employees.

Joe: 00:28:17

And the second we finally got

Joe: 00:28:18

a couple and like, boom things

Joe: 00:28:20

started happening real fast.

Joe: 00:28:22

So that was really good advice.

Luke: 00:28:23

Yeah.

Luke: 00:28:24

Hiring smart is a huge, huge thing.

Luke: 00:28:26

And and yeah, we learned the

Luke: 00:28:28

hard way a little bit, but we

Luke: 00:28:30

also learned the good way too.

Luke: 00:28:31

It's very noticeable when you

Luke: 00:28:33

have the right team and it's,

Luke: 00:28:34

and it's a makes a huge impact.

John: 00:28:36

Yeah.

John: 00:28:36

Well, we could do a whole other

John: 00:28:37

interview just about that.

John: 00:28:38

I know.

John: 00:28:39

Cause today, especially yeah,

John: 00:28:41

everywhere I look, it's, people are

John: 00:28:43

saying, You know, turnover and you

John: 00:28:46

can't get good people can't keep good

John: 00:28:47

people hiring is the biggest issue.

John: 00:28:49

We've got plenty of business.

John: 00:28:50

We can't get the people to do the work.

John: 00:28:53

So that's yeah, man,

John: 00:28:54

we've come back to that.

John: 00:28:56

So you're talking about growing One of

John: 00:28:59

the things in family business, one of

John: 00:29:00

the things I saw was actually when I came

John: 00:29:02

into the family business, there was a guy

John: 00:29:03

already there that was wanting to grow.

John: 00:29:07

And he saw me as a threat, you know,

John: 00:29:08

as a family member, he, he said, he

John: 00:29:10

felt like he could never compete.

John: 00:29:12

So, you know, here you

John: 00:29:12

guys are family business.

John: 00:29:15

How do you incentivize non-family

John: 00:29:17

members to feel like they've got

John: 00:29:18

a career or, you know, and, and.

John: 00:29:22

a place?

Joe: 00:29:24

Yeah, that's a, that's a tough one.

Joe: 00:29:25

I mean, you know, we're

Joe: 00:29:26

still fairly young.

Joe: 00:29:27

I mean, I've got kids, but they're

Joe: 00:29:28

not at the point where, you know,

Joe: 00:29:30

they're, they're able to be hired.

Joe: 00:29:32

But, but it's interesting to even just,

Joe: 00:29:34

I'm here in the office and I've heard,

Joe: 00:29:36

you know, them say that before, Oh man,

Joe: 00:29:37

we're going to get kicked out as soon

Joe: 00:29:39

as you kids come in that it's, it's,

Joe: 00:29:40

it's, I think it's a rational thought.

Joe: 00:29:43

That just in people have in general,

Joe: 00:29:45

right, because they've seen it

Joe: 00:29:46

happen the wrong way so many times.

Joe: 00:29:49

So right now we haven't had to face that.

Joe: 00:29:52

I think the, I mean, some of

Joe: 00:29:53

the best advice I've seen is

Joe: 00:29:55

I had some friends in Atlanta.

Joe: 00:29:57

They own one of the big anhyzer

Joe: 00:29:59

most distributorship there.

Joe: 00:30:01

And, and it's, those are

Joe: 00:30:03

very clearly defined.

Joe: 00:30:04

Like there's even rules that like

Joe: 00:30:06

your kids are going to take this over.

Joe: 00:30:07

It stays in the family.

Joe: 00:30:09

So it's very, very obvious.

Joe: 00:30:10

Like the old school, you

Joe: 00:30:12

know, Augustus Bush rules.

Joe: 00:30:14

I mean, it stays in the family.

Joe: 00:30:15

Those old Anheuser Busch

Joe: 00:30:16

distributorships, they don't

Joe: 00:30:18

really get sold that often, but.

Joe: 00:30:21

What I saw this guy do, his name is Mr.

Joe: 00:30:23

Economers, is he made all, all four

Joe: 00:30:25

of his boys, like if you guys want

Joe: 00:30:27

to work here, you're going to start

Joe: 00:30:28

at the very bottom for like, not just

Joe: 00:30:30

like a couple weeks, like for a year.

Joe: 00:30:32

And you're literally going to be

Joe: 00:30:33

the guy who is stocking Bud Lights

Joe: 00:30:36

in the Publix's or the Kroger's.

Joe: 00:30:37

I mean, you're literally starting

Joe: 00:30:38

at the bottom as a stock boy and you

Joe: 00:30:40

got to work all the, all the way up.

Joe: 00:30:42

And so I, I, and that's an extreme

Joe: 00:30:44

example because everyone knew they

Joe: 00:30:46

were literally going to take their job.

Joe: 00:30:47

Like they were going to run the company.

Joe: 00:30:49

Just based on, on how it's

Joe: 00:30:51

always been been done.

Joe: 00:30:52

But I thought that was at least

Joe: 00:30:53

great where you're, you're making,

Joe: 00:30:55

you know, you were family members.

Joe: 00:30:57

If they are going to join you

Joe: 00:30:59

start at the bottom and a couple

Joe: 00:31:00

of them don't work there anymore.

Joe: 00:31:02

I will say that a couple of them just

Joe: 00:31:03

weren't a fit and really didn't love it.

Joe: 00:31:05

And and realize only one brother

Joe: 00:31:06

could actually CEO and, and wanted

Joe: 00:31:10

to go start their own company.

Joe: 00:31:11

So I, I always thought

Joe: 00:31:12

that was just a cool way.

Joe: 00:31:13

And I know they get a lot of respect.

Joe: 00:31:15

Is a company there in Atlanta, who's

Joe: 00:31:17

kind of at least done it right.

Joe: 00:31:19

But, but that, man, that part is tough.

Joe: 00:31:20

And those are the dynamics that, I

Joe: 00:31:22

mean, it's a big reason, you know,

Joe: 00:31:23

you're, you guys are focused on that

Joe: 00:31:25

because it is it is, it is tricky.

Joe: 00:31:27

And fortunately, you know, we haven't

Joe: 00:31:29

had to be there, but if that happens with

Joe: 00:31:30

either my kids or Luke's future kids sure.

Joe: 00:31:33

Is that going to make them work for it?

Joe: 00:31:35

You know, where we could look everyone in

Joe: 00:31:36

the company and say, man, they deserve.

Joe: 00:31:38

You know, this promotion or this

Joe: 00:31:40

role or whatever it might be.

Joe: 00:31:41

Yeah, I think, you know, at

Joe: 00:31:43

least in my eyes, it's one of

Joe: 00:31:44

the best ways to handle it.

John: 00:31:45

Yeah.

John: 00:31:46

Some, what some companies do is actually

John: 00:31:47

require the young generation that wants

John: 00:31:50

to come in to go work at a competitor

John: 00:31:52

or in the industry somewhere for a

John: 00:31:54

few years and get some experience

John: 00:31:55

before they come in the company.

John: 00:31:57

Yeah, so they aren't.

John: 00:31:58

Yeah, I started out deep beaking chicken.

John: 00:32:00

So that's another story too.

John: 00:32:03

Yeah, I know about

John: 00:32:04

working from the bottom.

Luke: 00:32:06

Yeah, that's the

Luke: 00:32:07

right way to do it that way.

Luke: 00:32:08

I mean, whoever it is, you know,

Luke: 00:32:09

they'll have respect from everybody

Luke: 00:32:10

else where it's not just an entitlement.

Luke: 00:32:13

It's actually working up the up the ranks.

Luke: 00:32:16

So that's Definitely proper way.

John: 00:32:20

Awesome.

John: 00:32:20

Okay.

John: 00:32:21

I want to watch our time here.

John: 00:32:22

We're at 3:35.

John: 00:32:23

So do you guys network with any

John: 00:32:25

other family business owners?

John: 00:32:27

Like, do you have a network

John: 00:32:29

of family businesses per se?

Joe: 00:32:31

I don't, but we're part of a

Joe: 00:32:33

group called C12 which is a Christian

Joe: 00:32:36

organization for like Christian CEOs.

Joe: 00:32:39

And there are quite a few of of

Joe: 00:32:42

family, actually a bunch of them.

Joe: 00:32:44

I'd say half of them just happened to be

Joe: 00:32:46

a family based business where it was a

Joe: 00:32:49

second, third generation has taken over

Joe: 00:32:51

or it's two brothers or husband and wife.

Joe: 00:32:53

So ironically, there's

Joe: 00:32:54

a lot of them in there.

Joe: 00:32:55

So we're, we're, we haven't, we didn't

Joe: 00:32:57

proactively seek that out, but it is

Joe: 00:32:59

ironic that we've all kind of attracted

Joe: 00:33:01

together and we meet once a month

Joe: 00:33:03

and, and literally take the whole day.

Joe: 00:33:06

And in a kind of a boardroom type

Joe: 00:33:08

of meeting, shut down the phones and

Joe: 00:33:11

there's always kind of an agenda or like

Joe: 00:33:12

something that we're going to learn.

Joe: 00:33:13

And then the rest of the time

Joe: 00:33:14

we just kind of air out issues.

Joe: 00:33:16

And a lot of times it's about family.

Joe: 00:33:18

You know, and how do I handle this?

Joe: 00:33:21

And and, and so it's been really,

Joe: 00:33:23

really cool to, to see that.

Joe: 00:33:24

And there's been some, there's been,

Joe: 00:33:26

you know, one in our group, the two

Joe: 00:33:28

brothers split up and they both, they were

Joe: 00:33:30

hitting, they were bumping heads so much.

Joe: 00:33:32

And they both had their own kind of

Joe: 00:33:34

specialty, if you will, and thought they

Joe: 00:33:36

were right and they literally decided

Joe: 00:33:38

to dissolve the company and start both

Joe: 00:33:40

started their own and they both did well.

Joe: 00:33:42

They both have, you know, super successful

Joe: 00:33:44

10 plus million dollar a year companies.

Joe: 00:33:47

And they're, you know, obviously

Joe: 00:33:48

both still friends and so it's been

Joe: 00:33:50

really cool to kind of see that.

John: 00:33:54

That's really cool.

John: 00:33:56

Funny that you mentioned

John: 00:33:57

two brothers like that.

John: 00:33:58

The two books that I've found that

John: 00:34:00

are written about family issues in

John: 00:34:03

business and how to deal with them

John: 00:34:05

are written by two brothers that

John: 00:34:07

are both second generation of the

John: 00:34:09

Olan Mills photography company.

John: 00:34:11

And and they, they each

John: 00:34:13

went their own way.

John: 00:34:13

They both now are running coaching

John: 00:34:15

businesses, but their own separate ones.

Joe: 00:34:18

So Olan Mills.

John: 00:34:20

Yeah, Olan Mills .So I was

John: 00:34:22

gonna ask where you go for guidance

John: 00:34:23

on, you know, how the family

John: 00:34:25

relationships impact the business.

John: 00:34:26

It sounds like that's that group,

John: 00:34:27

that networking group is, is

John: 00:34:29

what's filling that for you, right?

Joe: 00:34:31

That's been a good one.

Joe: 00:34:32

And then just like any relationship,

Joe: 00:34:33

it's just open communication.

Joe: 00:34:35

Right.

Joe: 00:34:36

And that's what we've been

Joe: 00:34:37

blessed because, I mean,

Joe: 00:34:39

Luke and I are best friends.

Joe: 00:34:40

We talk pretty much every day.

Joe: 00:34:42

And obviously we're, you know, fishing

Joe: 00:34:44

once a week and, you know, a lot of stuff

Joe: 00:34:45

you can kind of talk about in the boat.

Joe: 00:34:47

It's, it's, I don't know, something

Joe: 00:34:49

magical about being out in the water

Joe: 00:34:51

or out in the woods or somewhere and

Joe: 00:34:52

you just have open conversations.

Joe: 00:34:54

So, I mean, so much about

Joe: 00:34:55

it's just communicating.

Joe: 00:34:56

I mean, if you look at most divorces

Joe: 00:34:58

in America, it, It, everyone could say

Joe: 00:35:01

it was this or that, but it usually

Joe: 00:35:02

started with just bad communicating

Joe: 00:35:04

and not spending time together talking

Joe: 00:35:06

about issues that were on your mind.

Joe: 00:35:08

And so I, that would, I would

Joe: 00:35:09

urge people first to just, just

Joe: 00:35:11

talk about it and be honest.

Joe: 00:35:12

And there's been a couple things

Joe: 00:35:14

in C12 where we're all like, have

Joe: 00:35:16

you mentioned this to the person?

Joe: 00:35:18

And they're like, not yet.

Joe: 00:35:19

And they're like, well, that's

Joe: 00:35:20

probably the best place to start.

Joe: 00:35:22

But it could be tough.

Joe: 00:35:23

I mean, it could be

Joe: 00:35:24

tough to have, you know.

Joe: 00:35:25

tough conversations like that.

Joe: 00:35:26

So

Luke: 00:35:27

yeah, just being as Joe

Luke: 00:35:28

mentioned before, and that's a good

Luke: 00:35:30

thing about in many cases, siblings

Luke: 00:35:32

is that it's not that the festering

Luke: 00:35:34

is really where the damage happens.

Luke: 00:35:36

And that seemed to happen at least,

Luke: 00:35:38

at least in our experience, in my

Luke: 00:35:39

experience, it seemed to happen more,

Luke: 00:35:41

it happened more in the political or in

Luke: 00:35:43

the corporate environment where you're

Luke: 00:35:45

kind of afraid to kind of step on toes

Luke: 00:35:47

or to be honest and, and forthright.

Luke: 00:35:50

Whereas your brother, like, oh, he is,

Luke: 00:35:52

you know I can just, he'll be mad up

Luke: 00:35:54

if I say this for a little bit, but

Luke: 00:35:55

we'll get over it and, and get past it.

Luke: 00:35:57

And and I, and I think that's

Luke: 00:35:58

been a, a, a big, a big help.

Luke: 00:36:00

And also we have different, very different

Luke: 00:36:01

personalities where a lot of the stuff

Luke: 00:36:03

that he likes doing, he's best at, it's

Luke: 00:36:05

the opposite for me and, and vice versa.

Luke: 00:36:07

So we've been, we've been blessed

Luke: 00:36:09

in, in that as well, where our, our

Luke: 00:36:10

kind of likes and, and and, and core

Luke: 00:36:13

abilities are, are kind of on different,

Luke: 00:36:15

different sides of the spectrum

John: 00:36:17

and complimentary.

Luke: 00:36:19

Correct.

Luke: 00:36:19

Yep.

John: 00:36:20

Excellent.

John: 00:36:20

Excellent.

John: 00:36:22

Guys.

John: 00:36:22

Thank you so much.

John: 00:36:23

This has been huge.

Joe: 00:36:25

Absolutely.

Joe: 00:36:26

We appreciate it.

Joe: 00:36:27

And I'm, I'm sure in a couple of years

Joe: 00:36:30

we'll have more to share and and who

Joe: 00:36:31

knows what, what, what will happen.

Joe: 00:36:33

I guess we won't be bringing on any

Joe: 00:36:35

other family members, but you never

Joe: 00:36:36

know, you know, mom's tried to get a

Joe: 00:36:38

job and we said, no way, because they

Joe: 00:36:41

way over, way over qualified, of course.

Joe: 00:36:42

So, yeah.

John: 00:36:46

All right.

John: 00:36:48

Awesome.

John: 00:36:49

Well, you guys inspired me.

John: 00:36:50

I contacted you back in 2014 and you

John: 00:36:53

got, you were kind enough to give me a

John: 00:36:54

copy of your basic, building a business

John: 00:36:57

online course that you were doing and I

John: 00:36:58

just really got interested in marketing.

Joe: 00:37:01

Keep at it.

John: 00:37:02

All righty.

John: 00:37:03

Well, whenever we get

John: 00:37:04

together, I look forward to it.