In this richly informative interview, brothers Joe and Luke Simonds share their journey of establishing and flourishing their business, Salt Strong.

Starting with their love for fishing that shaped their business idea, the brothers underline the importance of identifying and solving a problem to generate a successful business. They accentuate placing the customer’s convenience at the forefront, creating a strong Unique Selling Proposition and focusing on individual strengths in business operations.

They also discuss the challenges and advantages of working in a family-based business, emphasizing open communication as the key to a healthy business partnership within a family. The conversation wraps up with the brothers’ valuable advice on hiring and encouraging non-family employees for growth.

00:00 Introduction and Inspiration Behind the Business

00:27 Identifying the Problem and Creating a Solution

01:04 The Importance of Understanding Fishing Trends

01:48 The Growth and Success of the Business

02:27 The Value of the Membership and Community

06:48 The Role of Technology in the Business

09:00 The Unique Selling Proposition and Business Evolution

17:42 The Shift in Marketing Strategy

18:09 The Power of Offering What Customers Want

18:44 The Importance of Knowledge in Fishing

19:08 Building a Community Around Your Brand

19:27 The Role of Family in Business

19:56 The Journey of Starting a Business with a Sibling

22:23 The Importance of Staying in Your Lane

25:52 The Impact of Hiring the Right People

27:38 The Challenges of Family Dynamics in Business

33:08 The Value of Open Communication in Family Business

You can learn more on their YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/@Saltstrong and their website, https://www.saltstrong.com/ .

If you’re in Central Florida, you can visit their headquarters at 1505 S Lake Shipp Drive, Winter Haven, FL 33880

Transcript
John:

I'm doing a series of profiles

John:

of family businesses, our, our

John:

coaching company that we have Kuder

John:

Consulting Group is is focused.

John:

Our specialty is family businesses because

John:

of our backgrounds in family business.

John:

So it's, you know, we're family, small

John:

family businesses that are growing and,

John:

and, you know, we want to honor, highlight

John:

family business and also explore.

John:

I mean, there are some challenges

John:

that are common in family businesses.

John:

I don't want to put anybody in the

John:

place of feeling like they've got to

John:

air their dirty laundry in public.

John:

So, the purpose is really to just be

John:

a nice profile of the company, but I do

John:

want to touch on the aspects of family.

John:

So, one of the questions I

John:

have had a family bonds, help the

John:

business, you know, things like that.

John:

So, history of the business, how you got

John:

into it, what, what your inspiration was,

John:

I think people would like that because I

John:

think, you know, us small family business

John:

owners feel like we don't get we don't

John:

get the props that we ought to, you know?

John:

So what do you think about that?

Luke:

Sounds good.

Joe:

Yeah.

Joe:

What's up guys.

Joe:

Can you hear me?

Joe:

Yes, sir.

Joe:

Excellent.

John:

Gotcha.

John:

Got your Yeti mic and

John:

your pop screen there.

John:

I love it.

Joe:

Oh yeah, my little podcast room here.

John:

So what inspired you guys to start

Joe:

this business?

Joe:

Well, Luke and I grew up

Joe:

fishing our whole lives.

Joe:

And when we got a little bit older,

Joe:

meaning like out of college and

Joe:

real world hit us, you know, you

Joe:

realize how precious your time is.

Joe:

And for us fishermen, people who love

Joe:

to go out and catch fish, it became a

Joe:

whole lot tougher than it was in our.

Joe:

You know, teenage years in our

Joe:

twenties to spend all day out

Joe:

there, just trying to figure it out.

Joe:

And we realized pretty quickly that

Joe:

we needed some help and there, there

Joe:

was a problem though, and any small

Joe:

business, anyone listening to this,

Joe:

you know, don't start a business

Joe:

unless there's a problem, right?

Joe:

You, you know, you need to solve a

Joe:

problem before you can create a customer.

Joe:

And what we kept going back to is

Joe:

there was no one teaching how to go out

Joe:

there and consistently find the fish.

Joe:

You know, you had fishing magazines

Joe:

and you had fishing TV shows and

Joe:

even YouTube had just got started.

Joe:

You know, YouTube has blown up really

Joe:

in the last five, six years, but

Joe:

those were kind of the three things,

Joe:

but they're all sponsor driven

Joe:

and advertisement driven and, and,

Joe:

and very biased towards one thing.

Joe:

But, but more importantly, they

Joe:

left out like the most important

Joe:

piece, which was the trends, right?

Joe:

Like actually.

Joe:

teaching people, because last time I

Joe:

checked, fish have tails and no fences.

Joe:

They're not just sitting

Joe:

in one spot all year long.

Joe:

They're moving back and

Joe:

forth with the tides.

Joe:

They're moving through seasons.

Joe:

They go out and spawn and no one was

Joe:

teaching everything from beginning to end.

Joe:

And so Luke and I had always dreamed

Joe:

about having a fishing company and it

Joe:

kind of hit us like, why don't we just

Joe:

create everything that we wish was around

Joe:

when we were struggling to catch fish?

Joe:

And it boiled down to that one word,

Joe:

the trends about, you know, helping

Joe:

people find fish fast based on trends

Joe:

and filling in all the gaps that

Joe:

are, that are missing out there from

Joe:

fishing magazines, TV shows, et cetera.

Joe:

And it took off, you know, we had

Joe:

a hundred people join our club.

Joe:

It's, it's a, it's a subscription.

Joe:

It's a membership to get all of our

Joe:

content and cheat sheets and courses and

Joe:

all this great stuff to find the fish.

Joe:

A hundred people joined

Joe:

then 500, a thousand.

Joe:

I remember we hit 2000, we're like high

Joe:

fiving and then we hit 5,000 and then

Joe:

we hit 10,000 and we were like, man,

Joe:

pinching ourselves still are to this day.

Joe:

And now it's at 25,000, I think

Joe:

it's 26,000 to be precise.

Joe:

You know, members are, are now

Joe:

paying to be part of this club.

Joe:

And it, it's just been really,

Joe:

really cool and it's turned

Joe:

into our own little family.

Joe:

So we're, we're, we're pleased as

Joe:

punch and, and, and just, Like I

Joe:

said, pinching ourselves every day.

Luke:

Yeah.

Luke:

The, yeah, the key thing was just that,

Luke:

that gap, the problem that somebody

Luke:

new to fishing, they didn't have a one

Luke:

stop shop to go to, to take them from

Luke:

wherever they are, whether they're total

Luke:

beginner or they're gone out at a handful

Luke:

of times, or even we have now full time

Luke:

guides joining, but to go out and catch

Luke:

fish, cause we have tips on, on, on live

Luke:

bait, which is what most people use, but

Luke:

also artificial lures, a lot of people

Luke:

don't think that, that, that they can

Luke:

catch good saltwater fish with lures.

Luke:

And that's not true at all.

Luke:

Like saltwater fish are very aggressive.

Luke:

And as long as you know, the trends

Luke:

on where they are, and then just

Luke:

know a handful of good lures, you

Luke:

can go out there and catch a ton.

Luke:

So we just put together the full recipe.

Luke:

Like Joe mentioned, the

Luke:

magazines are helpful.

Luke:

YouTube's helpful.

Luke:

The TV shows are helpful, but

Luke:

they're, they're all fragmented.

Luke:

The, the, like none of them have the

Luke:

entire recipe where you can just go there.

Luke:

And then and quickly get

Luke:

from point A to point B.

Luke:

And so that's really the problem

Luke:

that we solve with people's time

Luke:

is just going out and not having

Luke:

to try to put it all together.

Luke:

Because in many cases you hear one

Luke:

recipe, you get a bit of one recipe

Luke:

here, a bit of another one recipe here,

Luke:

and they don't work together at all.

Luke:

So, so that's really been the.

Luke:

Just the major, major thing is just

Luke:

solving fishermen's time issue.

John:

That's beautiful.

John:

I, you, you guys hit on two things that

John:

tr when you said trends, you, you're

John:

not talking about marketplace trends.

John:

You're talking about the, like the, the

John:

trends of how the fish are, you know,

John:

the, the cyclical and seasonal trends

John:

of fish living their lives, right?

Joe:

Yeah.

Joe:

And we came from, you know, the

Joe:

financial world and you had trends

Joe:

there as well to your point.

Joe:

And with anything, any kind of business

Joe:

and industry, you have different trends

Joe:

and the same with fishing, right?

Joe:

Our trends happen to be, you know,

Joe:

weather dependent and tides, you

Joe:

know, and for saltwater fishing

Joe:

in particular, you have tides.

Joe:

And so it's all based on those types

Joe:

of trends and just like the stocks.

Joe:

And, and and really anything

Joe:

that kind of follows cycles and

Joe:

trends, it can become predictable.

Joe:

It doesn't mean like, you know,

Joe:

just like stocks, no one just

Joe:

picks a winner every time you

Joe:

can't pick a perfect fishing spot.

Joe:

But once you study trends and realize

Joe:

like that is the magic bullet.

Joe:

Takes a little while, but once you

Joe:

kind of get that, which is why we teach

Joe:

it, and we, we harp on it so much,

Joe:

it just makes fishing so much more

Joe:

easier and enjoyable and, and which

Joe:

it ties in our whole mission, right?

Joe:

Is bringing people together and

Joe:

having fun and creating memories.

Joe:

We realized pretty quickly, I mean,

Joe:

kind of like Disney world, right?

Joe:

They're not a theme park.

Joe:

I mean, they're like a

Joe:

memory creating machine.

Joe:

I mean, that's, that's really what

Joe:

a lot of people look at is, man, I

Joe:

created these amazing memories I paid.

Joe:

10 times more than I wanted to at Disney,

Joe:

but I made these amazing memories with

Joe:

my family and that's, that's really

Joe:

become our big goal and mission.

Joe:

It's what kind of gets us fired up every

Joe:

morning is when we get testimonials,

Joe:

which come in almost every day now

Joe:

of someone saying, thank you guys,

Joe:

because of what I learned in this club.

Joe:

I just went out and caught, you know, my

Joe:

first red fish or I got my little nine

Joe:

year old daughter on her first fish ever.

Joe:

My son's been begging me fishing

Joe:

and I failed him five times and

Joe:

I finally did it because you

Joe:

guys like that, that's awesome.

Joe:

Like that, that's what gets us going.

Joe:

Cause it's not about catching a

Joe:

state record or anything like that.

Joe:

It's just about going out and

Joe:

having fun and creating memories.

Joe:

And if we can shorten that

Joe:

learning curve, just like anyone

Joe:

trying to solve any problem.

Joe:

If you can shorten the curve for

Joe:

someone, you're going to have some,

Joe:

you know, some, some great clients

Joe:

and hopefully some raving fans.

John:

Yeah.

John:

I mean, I can, I can completely relate.

John:

I, I say to people, you know

John:

I don't really enjoy fishing.

John:

I enjoy catching, you know, and that's

John:

if anybody's been spent a day, you know,

John:

going out and getting, spending the whole

John:

day out working their butt off and not

John:

catching anything, it's, it's a lot more

John:

fun when you come home with something

Joe:

A thousand times better.

John:

I totally get that.

John:

And so you guys were kind of your

John:

own, your perfect avatar, right?

John:

You, you, I think what you said

John:

was we wanted to solve the problem

John:

that we had and, and it, it was a

John:

problem that a lot of people shared.

Luke:

Yeah, we've walked through it.

Luke:

We learned the hard way ourselves and

Luke:

we basically built it to be something

Luke:

that we wish we had when we started.

Luke:

And so that was, that was really the kind

Luke:

of the foundation, you know, what, you

Luke:

know, based on every decision we have

Luke:

is, is this going to help our members

Luke:

just catch more fish or have more fun

Luke:

and do it as efficiently as possible?

Luke:

If the answer is no, we don't do it.

Luke:

So that's, that's really

Luke:

been the foundation.

Luke:

Just make it as easy as possible and

Luke:

as easily consumable as possible.

Luke:

That includes the tech stack too.

Luke:

That's been a big thing.

Luke:

It is online based.

Luke:

So we've had to invest a lot of

Luke:

money in the tech stack, and we're,

Luke:

we're still doing that recent, we're

Luke:

doing a big upgrade now just again,

Luke:

just to make it as seamless and

Luke:

effortless as possible for members.

John:

So tech stack, you're talking about

John:

what you use to build the courses, record

John:

them, how you serve them up, all that,

Joe:

Our community that

Joe:

includes their community, right?

Joe:

Because that's a big part of it is,

Joe:

you know, people are wherever my

Joe:

phone is, or they're on their phones,

Joe:

you know, actually sharing their

Joe:

fishing pictures and asking questions.

Joe:

So that's a big, a big,

Joe:

a really big part of it.

Joe:

And then getting the courses

Joe:

and being able to pick out the

Joe:

lures and the tackle they want.

Joe:

It's regardless, I read a book

Joe:

recently that was, you know,

Joe:

published in the last 12 months.

Joe:

And it, it made a case at the end

Joe:

that no matter what business you're

Joe:

in, you're in the tech business.

Joe:

I mean, right.

Joe:

We're doing Zoom.

Joe:

This is considered tech.

Joe:

No matter what you're doing, even

Joe:

if you're selling cupcakes in one

Joe:

city in Winter Haven, Florida.

Joe:

You still hopefully have a

Joe:

website where people can go order

Joe:

or pre purchase or do pick up.

Joe:

I mean, you're still in the

Joe:

tech industry this day and age.

Joe:

And so we didn't really, we didn't

Joe:

really see that in the beginning.

Joe:

And now it's becoming

Joe:

more and more evident.

Joe:

And every time we do, and every time

Joe:

we invest a little bit more in tech.

Joe:

We get more people and they share

Joe:

it because it's, it's, we make

Joe:

it easier for them to use it.

Joe:

So I would highly advise anyone listening

Joe:

outside of all the family stuff, you

Joe:

know, to, to invest in tech when it makes

Joe:

sense, obviously don't just waste money

Joe:

on it, but if you can make it easier

Joe:

for your customers to interact with

Joe:

you and to purchase from you and and

Joe:

to get things done and customer service

Joe:

interaction, it makes it so much easier.

Luke:

And I'll show an example.

Luke:

This is a tides, right?

Luke:

Tides, tide charts have been something

Luke:

that have been around forever, right?

Luke:

Or at least not forever, but

Luke:

for a very long time, but we

Luke:

just made it easier, right?

Luke:

We, we just obviously show the tide

Luke:

chart, but we give the days like the

Luke:

upcoming days, what days are most likely

Luke:

going to have the best, the best feeding

Luke:

activity based on the tides, based

Luke:

on the weather, based on the trends.

Luke:

Then we have the tide chart and the graph,

Luke:

and then below that we even have by day.

Luke:

When's the best bite going to be?

Luke:

So right now is actually

Luke:

a pretty good bite.

Luke:

So I might, I might be going to

Joe:

hurry up and yeah,

Joe:

end this thing quick,

Luke:

but it's just all about just

Luke:

making, just making the customer's

Luke:

lives or really client's lives as

Luke:

easy, and as efficient as possible.

Luke:

So that's, that's been

Luke:

our goal for everything.

John:

So I know one of the questions

John:

I had was what is, what's your, what

John:

sets you apart from the competition?

John:

You know, a lot of businesses I

John:

think, you know, may struggle a little

John:

bit with, you know, unique selling

John:

proposition or what makes them different.

John:

You know, especially somebody maybe in

John:

the service industry or, you know, I mean,

John:

I, I sell air conditioners or whatever.

John:

How do you guys, do you

John:

guys have any competition?

John:

I mean, you're kind of different

John:

from a service based business.

Joe:

Yeah.

Joe:

Well, I mean, we, we purposely,

Joe:

you created something that, that

Joe:

was kind of, you know, different.

Joe:

Right.

Joe:

And not to say, cause we,

Joe:

everyone has some competition.

Joe:

There's been some smaller groups

Joe:

that have tried to take on, you know,

Joe:

certain segments of, of fishing.

Joe:

Like, you know, we're saltwater fishing

Joe:

Salt Strong is the name of the company.

Joe:

And so right now we're

Joe:

basically Texas to Virginia.

Joe:

There's been a couple and a few

Joe:

random states, but for the most part,

Joe:

our competition in terms of, of how

Joe:

to, and education has been what we

Joe:

started the, the interview off with.

Joe:

It's been fishing magazines and

Joe:

TV shows and kind of YouTube.

Joe:

So that that's kind of our competition

Joe:

is, is making people see, and usually

Joe:

they do pretty quickly because they've

Joe:

tried all those things, those things.

Joe:

They're not where they want to

Joe:

be when it comes to fishing.

Joe:

So what really made us stand out,

Joe:

like you're talking about like a USP

Joe:

unique selling proposition, something

Joe:

that's like simple and memorable

Joe:

and also kind of like, Oh, wow.

Joe:

How like the elevator pitch and it

Joe:

started, it's, it's morphed over the

Joe:

years, but it started off because

Joe:

we want people want to catch fish.

Joe:

Right.

Joe:

So it started off saying, we'll

Joe:

help you catch more fish in

Joe:

less time, or you don't pay.

Joe:

It's free.

Joe:

And then we even went as far as

Joe:

we'll double your money back.

Joe:

So we did that for awhile and

Joe:

that got people's attention.

Joe:

Cause like, wait a minute.

Joe:

It's like, yeah.

Joe:

So if you stick with this a year and you

Joe:

don't feel like you're catching more fish,

Joe:

not only would give you your a hundred

Joe:

bucks, that's the annual 97 for the year.

Joe:

will literally double it.

Joe:

And so now people are like,

Joe:

okay, I have literally nothing.

Joe:

You know, anytime you can take all the

Joe:

risk off of your, your client and put

Joe:

it on you to deliver whatever promise

Joe:

or service you're making, it just makes

Joe:

it easier to do business with you.

Joe:

And we've had a few, we we've

Joe:

had, you know, some over the years

Joe:

we've had to give money back.

Joe:

I mean, some of them, we almost laugh

Joe:

about I remember this one person, they

Joe:

went the whole year and we obviously, as

Joe:

a tech company can see what emails they've

Joe:

opened, what courses they've been through.

Joe:

They went through nothing.

Joe:

And at the end they said, it was

Joe:

like day 330 and they're like, you

Joe:

know, you guys stink, I've become a

Joe:

worse fisherman because of this club.

Joe:

I won't mind.

Joe:

And we, we gave them their money back.

Joe:

But we also looked like they

Joe:

didn't even, they didn't even try.

Joe:

It's like joining a gym that had a

Joe:

guarantee and not going a single time.

Joe:

And then saying, Hey, I got fat

Joe:

because of your gym kind of laughable.

Joe:

But, but you know, and we do lose some

Joe:

and that's, it was scary at first.

Joe:

Right.

Joe:

Remember Luke.

Joe:

When we first did it, we're like,

Joe:

man, we're going to lose our butts.

Joe:

People are, but no, if you have a great

Joe:

service or product and you believe

Joe:

in it, put the biggest, boldest,

Joe:

baddest, scariest guarantee out there.

Joe:

And, and, and people will start

Joe:

flocking to you because of it.

Joe:

And you got to be able

Joe:

to back it up, obviously.

Joe:

And and we did.

Joe:

And so it's out of the 26, 000 people.

Joe:

I mean, we get, you know, a couple of

Joe:

year, we'll ask for their money back.

Joe:

And it's various reasons,

Joe:

sometimes just financial.

Joe:

Hey, we're literally broke

Joe:

and need our money back.

Joe:

And, you know, we obviously

Joe:

do that pretty quickly.

Joe:

So that that's really been the overall

Joe:

USP is what makes us difference is the

Joe:

focus on helping you find and catch

Joe:

the fist faster than ever before.

Joe:

or you don't pay.

Joe:

It's that simple.

Joe:

And now we, yeah, now we talk,

Joe:

you know, we've tied in tackle

Joe:

where they get tackle discounts.

Joe:

And so we've, we've made it a little

Joe:

bit more even attractive where not

Joe:

only can we help you find the fish, but

Joe:

we'll give you, you know, 20 to even 30

Joe:

percent off, off your tackle as well.

Joe:

Kind of like kind of like a Costco

Joe:

membership is probably the best analogy

Joe:

where, you know, you're, you're paying

Joe:

a hundred bucks or whatever it is to be

Joe:

a Costco member and you get access to

Joe:

their products and discounts, but we have

Joe:

a little bit more with, with the whole

Joe:

club in terms of the, the how to videos.

Joe:

So it's, it's, it's really been fun.

Joe:

And, and a lot of that, I, I would

Joe:

urge people, cause I remember

Joe:

Luke and I got kind of I mean,

Joe:

we, we had some, not a knockout.

Joe:

Punches, but you know, that, that calls

Joe:

definitely a lot of internal discussions

Joe:

and grief and confusion because we

Joe:

never really had that thing nailed down.

Joe:

And we felt like we had

Joe:

to have it nailed down.

Joe:

So I would urge people like start with

Joe:

something, throw it out there and, you

Joe:

know, and get feedback from people like,

Joe:

man, it's not really that attractive.

Joe:

I don't really understand it.

Joe:

But as soon as we just started saying,

Joe:

yeah, we help you, John, we help you

Joe:

catch more fish or you don't pay.

Joe:

Really like how you, you can't

Joe:

just end a conversation like that.

Joe:

You're curious like, well, how

Joe:

do you, how do you do that?

Joe:

And so all of a sudden

Joe:

now we got your attention.

Joe:

And so once again, it changes over time.

Joe:

But I, I would urge people

Joe:

to definitely have one.

Joe:

You gotta have one that, that set

Joe:

you, sets you apart from everyone

Joe:

else, but two, you know, play around

Joe:

with it and, and don't be afraid

Joe:

to change it as as you evolve.

Luke:

Yeah, no telling how

Luke:

many of those we went through.

Luke:

We, we, especially in the early years,

Luke:

the business was pivoting basically

Luke:

every month because you're right.

Luke:

We tried something.

Luke:

Okay.

Luke:

It doesn't work.

Luke:

Try something else.

Luke:

It doesn't work.

Luke:

Try another thing and just got to keep

Luke:

doing it until, until the market will

Luke:

let you know when it's good or when

Luke:

it's not, you can't force a bad thing.

Luke:

That's another, another thing that we

Luke:

we've learned the hard way as well.

Luke:

But yeah,

John:

How do you mean you

John:

can't force a bad thing?

John:

Sorry.

John:

When you say I can't, you

John:

can't force a bad thing.

John:

You mean.

John:

You just gotta let the market

John:

tell you if it's right or not.

Luke:

Yeah, like we tried

Luke:

apparel for a while and

John:

I was going to ask about that.

Luke:

And so, yeah, that was just a really

Luke:

tough thing for a small group who doesn't

Luke:

have the big, the big margins like these,

Luke:

you know, when you're buying huge books

Luke:

like the, like the big big companies do.

Luke:

I mean, it's a really tough

Luke:

industry and, and if we had, we

Luke:

kept going down that route, there's

Luke:

no way we'd still be in business.

Luke:

It's a, you can't just force it.

Joe:

One of the best pieces of advice

Joe:

we got is from Ryan Dyess who's

Joe:

the founder of Digital Marketer.

Joe:

And, and we were at a conference

Joe:

there where where he was, he was

Joe:

the guy speaking and just talking.

Joe:

And he said, guys, what I found over

Joe:

and over again, from owning multiple

Joe:

businesses and in consulting and

Joe:

just seeing the problems that we all

Joe:

have in small businesses especially,

Joe:

is usually it's an offer problem.

Joe:

And so what Luke was basically

Joe:

saying is you, you can't put a crappy

Joe:

offer out there and just expect to

Joe:

like spend more Facebook ads on it

Joe:

or put more lipstick on the pig.

Joe:

And it's just going to get better.

Joe:

It, it rarely does that happen.

Joe:

And we were all guilty.

Joe:

We did it so many times like, Oh

Joe:

man, I know this is a good offer.

Joe:

We're just going to

Joe:

spend more money on it.

Joe:

And we're like, Oh man, we should

Joe:

have just gone with our gut and

Joe:

probably fix the offer a little bit.

Joe:

You know, you, it's, it's that

Joe:

whole lipstick on a, on a pig.

Joe:

You can't just keep putting more

Joe:

and more at some point you need to

Joe:

look and sorry, this offer is not

Joe:

attracting the people it should.

Joe:

We know it's good.

Joe:

We need to tweak it just a little bit.

Joe:

And, and that, that's been, man, that's

Joe:

been a godsend for us because we, we, in

Joe:

the beginning, we spent so, we wasted so

Joe:

much money doing just the opposite, right?

Joe:

We'd have something that

Joe:

we thought was cool.

Joe:

The market didn't agree and we just keep

Joe:

trying to spend more money on it and

Joe:

jam it down people's throat even more.

Joe:

And it didn't work.

Joe:

And it wasn't until we really sat

Joe:

back and really just listened,

Joe:

you know, you don't have to have

Joe:

25, 000 customers or clients to.

Joe:

To get advice.

Joe:

You could have two you can have one

Joe:

and just have a one on one to go

Joe:

take them out to lunch and, you know,

Joe:

get some, get some honest feedback.

Joe:

Hey, what is, what are the

Joe:

real challenges deep down?

Joe:

What are you struggling with?

Joe:

And, and how can I, how

Joe:

can I fix this for you?

Joe:

And usually if you can find one

Joe:

person, you can find two and if

Joe:

you can find two, you can find

Joe:

10 and and so on and so forth.

John:

Wow.

John:

Yeah, that there's a real nugget

John:

there that, you know, you, you can't

John:

the answer to an offer that's not

John:

converting is not a bigger audience.

Joe:

Definitely not.

Joe:

It's a different offer altogether.

John:

Very cool.

John:

Yeah.

Joe:

And, and, and I'll just kind

Joe:

of tell you too, cause I know when I

Joe:

listen to podcasts or videos, I'm like,

Joe:

all right, well, give me an example

Joe:

that here's a great example, fishing.

Joe:

Health doesn't really matter.

Joe:

There's always something that people want.

Joe:

And Luke touched on earlier,

Joe:

it's usually time, right?

Joe:

We all want something faster

Joe:

than than we deserve it.

Joe:

Many cases, right?

Joe:

Like we all want to lose 20 tomorrow.

Joe:

We don't want to have to wait

Joe:

the 60 days it really takes.

Joe:

And if you're in the weight

Joe:

loss market, what do you think

Joe:

is going to sell more, right?

Joe:

An accountability coach and you know, 60

Joe:

or 90 day program on how to lift weights

Joe:

to lose weight or a pill, and it's sad,

Joe:

but true that the pill will work better.

Joe:

So it's, it's kind of, you know, give them

Joe:

what they, they think they, they want.

Joe:

And then in the back end, you

Joe:

know, or sell them what they want

Joe:

and then give them what they need.

Joe:

And so we used to only lead.

Joe:

With the how to stuff and

Joe:

like the trends, right?

Joe:

And we could say trends

Joe:

to a blue in the face.

Joe:

And most anglers, like fishermen is

Joe:

like, man, I just want to buy a new

Joe:

rod and reel and some fishing lures

Joe:

and some line and hooks and et cetera.

Joe:

So we got so tired of just pushing the

Joe:

how to stuff down people's throats,

Joe:

even though that's what they need.

Joe:

Like, that's the only way you

Joe:

become a great angler is if you

Joe:

study and you know the trends.

Joe:

So everyone knows that, but

Joe:

just like working out, they

Joe:

know they need to work out.

Joe:

But they really just kind

Joe:

of want the quick fix.

Joe:

And so as soon as we kind of flipped

Joe:

it and started, you know, leading

Joe:

with lures, like, Hey, here's a lure.

Joe:

And then as soon as they bought it,

Joe:

we'd almost make fun of ourselves

Joe:

and say, like on the thank you

Joe:

video, guys, here's the deal.

Joe:

You just made a great investment.

Joe:

These are the best lures, but they're

Joe:

not going to help you catch more fish.

Joe:

The only way you're really going

Joe:

to catch more fish is being in

Joe:

the right spot at the right time.

Joe:

And that's why we're helping

Joe:

you out with our insider club.

Joe:

And so we.

Joe:

We sold them what they want at a

Joe:

great price, you know, and in many

Joe:

cases we gave it to them for free.

Joe:

And then on the back end, we

Joe:

gave them what they really need.

Joe:

And that's how we really

Joe:

blew up this business.

Joe:

Cause people, you know, they're used

Joe:

to getting a lure and they get mad,

Joe:

which is why they go buy new lures

Joe:

and, and they always kind of want to

Joe:

blame it on the lure and it's usually,

Joe:

it's usually a lack of knowledge

Joe:

and intel on how to find the fish.

Joe:

And so as soon as we started giving

Joe:

them what they thought they, they

Joe:

needed, and then on the back end really

Joe:

served them up exactly what they need,

Joe:

what they truly need that we exploded.

Joe:

And we really created a cool community

Joe:

of people that, that love and

Joe:

like, and trust us and want to keep

Joe:

renewing their membership every year.

Joe:

So it's that would be a good example

Joe:

of sometimes taking a step back

Joe:

and saying, all right, if this

Joe:

isn't working, maybe we should lead

Joe:

with a slightly different offer.

John:

Very cool.

John:

Thank you.

John:

So I want to, I want to make sure we get

John:

into the family part of it a little bit.

John:

So there's a lot of different family

John:

structures, you know, many business I came

John:

from, you know, I was third generation.

John:

So I wasn't a founder.

John:

And that's, you know, that's one

John:

structure and it has its own challenges.

John:

Other, you know, there's a lot of

John:

husband and wife teams out there.

John:

Out here in Tampa, they're running

John:

businesses, but when Buddy Brews,

John:

you know, one of the big coffee

John:

companies here that husband and

John:

wife, two brothers is another.

John:

And and that's I don't

John:

see it as, as as common.

John:

It may be more common than I realized,

John:

but did you guys always dream

John:

about going into business together?

John:

And how has your brother

John:

relationship worked to strengthen

John:

the business?

Joe:

Yeah, I would say we have,

Joe:

that was kind of a, remember

Joe:

it was Gasparilla Island.

Joe:

That was kind of my first memory

Joe:

of it, where we always talked about

Joe:

how cool would it be to do something

Joe:

together in the fishing world.

Luke:

Yeah.

Luke:

Because we had a trip.

Luke:

It was a trip every year, and it

Luke:

started somehow, our dad let us borrow

Luke:

his boat for like, for a week and,

Luke:

and I'd brought one of my buddies

Luke:

and drove, brought one of his, we

Luke:

rented out this house on the island.

Luke:

You can only get two by boat.

Luke:

And we had just a blast and came back

Luke:

and started telling friends about it and

Luke:

the next year there was eight people.

Luke:

Then the year after that, there was

Luke:

12 and then it got up to 20 got up

Luke:

to 56 was the was the biggest but but

Luke:

it was just so much fun and and it

Luke:

was just fun like a lot of people.

Luke:

Some people met their spouses on those

Luke:

trips, it just bonded a lot of people

Luke:

together and it was a blast and and

Luke:

and yeah I remember just thinking like

Luke:

it would be really cool to somehow.

Luke:

You know, somehow do something

Luke:

together professionally.

Luke:

All right.

Luke:

That we were in college at this

Luke:

point and and it took, it was years

Luke:

after where it, where it actually

Luke:

transpired, but that was, yeah, I agree.

Luke:

That was when the seed was planted.

Joe:

And now, you know,

Joe:

we've been in business.

Joe:

This will be what, seven, six full years.

Joe:

So going to hit your seven, somewhere

Joe:

around there, six, seven years,

Luke:

Almost seven as Salt Strong

Luke:

but then, but then two years before

Luke:

that in the retirement service

Luke:

industry yeah, Joe was doing

Luke:

stuff by himself and doing great.

Luke:

I was in the corporate world for awhile,

Luke:

seeing how much fun Joe was having.

Luke:

And and, and one day he just called me and

Luke:

it's like, it was a really cool experience

Luke:

where get a call from brother and.

Luke:

And he was, you know, I

Luke:

actually need some help.

Luke:

He was growing his business

Luke:

faster than he can keep up with.

Luke:

And I was like in a pretty cush corporate

Luke:

world, but I didn't, I was at a point.

Luke:

I got as high as I could.

Luke:

I was in middle management at a young age.

Luke:

And I couldn't get up to the next

Luke:

level for like 20 years, right?

Luke:

I've been doing the same

Luke:

thing for a long time.

Luke:

And I just didn't really, I

Luke:

wasn't really interested in that.

Luke:

And I was getting less and less

Luke:

interested in, I should say.

Luke:

And then an exciting opportunity came

Luke:

to actually work with my brother.

Luke:

It was in retirement services,

Luke:

which I could care less about, but

Luke:

but it was just a cool opportunity.

Luke:

So I jumped on it.

Luke:

So like, sure, let's do it.

Luke:

And and that was.

Luke:

That was a learning experience.

Luke:

It was great.

Luke:

And then we sold, yeah, sold

Luke:

that company and, and started

Luke:

Salt Strong with those proceeds.

John:

So was that when you guys figured

John:

out you know, each of your, your

John:

strengths and, and how to divide, kind

John:

of divide the, the labor between you?

John:

Is that?

Joe:

Kind of.

Joe:

I, I, I wish we would have known to focus

Joe:

on that quicker because that, that's

Joe:

where the biggest fights happen, right?

Joe:

And that, that's, it's the pros and cons

Joe:

of working with a brother, family member.

Joe:

Is you can get stuff out quicker.

Joe:

Like, you know, you don't have to

Joe:

necessarily like I was in the corporate

Joe:

world, you know, for, for 10 years myself.

Joe:

And I remember I'd, you'd be mad at

Joe:

someone and you couldn't say anything

Joe:

in the office and you didn't want

Joe:

to mess with politics in the office.

Joe:

So you take it home and you'd

Joe:

sleep on it and you get mad and

Joe:

you tell your, your spouse at home.

Joe:

And sometimes it can build up to, to be

Joe:

really bad and, and, and, and keep you

Joe:

unfulfilled and, and and it's not healthy.

Joe:

The good news about Luke and I, and

Joe:

I'm hoping a lot of family members

Joe:

are like this, where we don't have

Joe:

any secrets, we don't hold anything

Joe:

back, and I ain't sleeping on nothing.

Joe:

Like, I get on the phone like, Dude,

Joe:

I'm pissed off, and vice versa.

Joe:

And so we get stuff out quicker, but also,

Joe:

you might say stuff to a family member or

Joe:

a loved one that you might regret, or you

Joe:

say it more aggressively than you would.

Joe:

to be subtle to a nice, you know,

Joe:

co-worker so certainly pros and cons,

Joe:

but back to your question, I think

Joe:

the best advice I could give to anyone

Joe:

would, regardless of the relationship

Joe:

as a family is to figure out what your

Joe:

strength is, like what you're best at.

Joe:

And stay in that lane and get out

Joe:

of the other person's lane, right?

Joe:

Because that was where we butted heads

Joe:

a lot, where he was trying, Luke would

Joe:

try to do something that I was great

Joe:

at, which is like sales and copywriting.

Joe:

And it doesn't mean you don't ask for

Joe:

advice, you do, you're still a team.

Joe:

But, but you don't try

Joe:

to jump in their lane.

Joe:

And you know, obviously don't ever

Joe:

say stay in your lane, you jerk.

Joe:

That doesn't help either.

Joe:

But, but, but seriously though,

Joe:

if you can stay in your lane

Joe:

and just be the absolute best.

Joe:

And then as soon as humanly possible.

Joe:

hire someone who, who fits another

Joe:

weakness that you might have.

Joe:

Right.

Joe:

I think, I think in school, they

Joe:

do one of the biggest disservices.

Joe:

And I don't know, I hate,

Joe:

let me take that back.

Joe:

You know, it's, it's using

Joe:

the word well rounded, right.

Joe:

And, and that was something that our

Joe:

parents taught us is you want to be

Joe:

well rounded and do a lot of this stuff.

Joe:

And I think that's a good way to

Joe:

maybe learn what you're best at.

Joe:

But to do that your entire life, I think

Joe:

is a disservice to it, to a business.

Joe:

It's fine.

Joe:

Like become a specialist, become an

Joe:

expert, become the best at whatever little

Joe:

thing that, that you have definitely

Joe:

give feedback and consult on the other

Joe:

stuff, but become the absolute best.

Joe:

And so I was, you can probably already

Joe:

tell me just by the way I talk and I'm

Joe:

the cheerleader, I'm the visionary.

Joe:

I'm the guy that's come

Joe:

up with crazy ideas.

Joe:

Half of them are horrible

Joe:

or more than half.

Joe:

But some of them are really good.

Joe:

And then we get people to implement it.

Joe:

Luke is not an implementer.

Joe:

Luke is a really good educator.

Joe:

I mean, one of the best ever when he gets

Joe:

in front of a camera, I mean, he's got the

Joe:

trust, he's got the skill and he gets in

Joe:

front of a camera with fishing and people

Joe:

are just like mesmerized and, and, but

Joe:

the problem we did for a couple of years,

Joe:

remember Luke is because we're missing a

Joe:

third piece, right, which is operations.

Joe:

We, we literally, both of us.

Joe:

Absolutely are horrible operations.

Joe:

And that was when the company

Joe:

would go up and then it would tank.

Joe:

Cause Luke would have to get off video.

Joe:

I have to get off doing my stuff and

Joe:

we'd go into operations and doing

Joe:

taxes and all this stupid stuff

Joe:

that we both absolutely dreaded.

Joe:

And as soon as we, we hired that out

Joe:

and got one person that loved that.

Joe:

Like we started taking off and,

Joe:

and I don't even know, like

Joe:

we have a CRM, they won't even

Joe:

give me a username and password.

Joe:

I don't know how to log in, nor do I care.

Joe:

And I haven't logged in probably two or

Joe:

three years, but that's good thing, right?

Joe:

If you have someone that that's not

Joe:

their strength, like get them out

Joe:

of there, stay in their lane and let

Joe:

everyone else do what they're best at.

Joe:

So that I wish someone

Joe:

had told us that earlier.

Joe:

Maybe we heard it, but we didn't

Joe:

take it seriously, but it made

Joe:

all the change in the world.

Joe:

And that first hire, this is something

Joe:

that that Justin Tupper, he was

Joe:

the founder of a company called

Joe:

revolution golf sold for about

Joe:

a hundred or so million dollars.

Joe:

So he did pretty, pretty well,

Joe:

but he said that first person

Joe:

you hire needs to one fit.

Joe:

You know, fit the role that you,

Joe:

you're, you're not good at, right?

Joe:

If it's operations for some

Joe:

people, it's the opposite.

Joe:

It's sales, but they need to,

Joe:

to be the absolute best and

Joe:

they better return a 10 X ROI.

Joe:

So he says, if you pay that, you know,

Joe:

the first person you hire, you might only

Joe:

pay them 40, 000 as a small business.

Joe:

They literally better be helping

Joe:

your company make 400 grand.

Joe:

Like it needs to be that big.

Joe:

And if not get rid of them, like your,

Joe:

your very first employee and your second

Joe:

should be the two most profitable.

Joe:

There is, because it's

Joe:

now letting you focus.

Joe:

And if they're not, like I said, get

Joe:

rid of them or figure out, you know,

Joe:

that maybe you don't have that, that

Joe:

right, that right seat defined yet.

Joe:

But I thought that was good.

Joe:

And he's like, I I've seen that

Joe:

happen over and over again, where

Joe:

someone's like, just good enough.

Joe:

And we did that.

Joe:

Remember, like our first couple of

Joe:

employees were not 10 X type of employees.

Joe:

And the second we finally got

Joe:

a couple and like, boom things

Joe:

started happening real fast.

Joe:

So that was really good advice.

Luke:

Yeah.

Luke:

Hiring smart is a huge, huge thing.

Luke:

And and yeah, we learned the

Luke:

hard way a little bit, but we

Luke:

also learned the good way too.

Luke:

It's very noticeable when you

Luke:

have the right team and it's,

Luke:

and it's a makes a huge impact.

John:

Yeah.

John:

Well, we could do a whole other

John:

interview just about that.

John:

I know.

John:

Cause today, especially yeah,

John:

everywhere I look, it's, people are

John:

saying, You know, turnover and you

John:

can't get good people can't keep good

John:

people hiring is the biggest issue.

John:

We've got plenty of business.

John:

We can't get the people to do the work.

John:

So that's yeah, man,

John:

we've come back to that.

John:

So you're talking about growing One of

John:

the things in family business, one of

John:

the things I saw was actually when I came

John:

into the family business, there was a guy

John:

already there that was wanting to grow.

John:

And he saw me as a threat, you know,

John:

as a family member, he, he said, he

John:

felt like he could never compete.

John:

So, you know, here you

John:

guys are family business.

John:

How do you incentivize non-family

John:

members to feel like they've got

John:

a career or, you know, and, and.

John:

a place?

Joe:

Yeah, that's a, that's a tough one.

Joe:

I mean, you know, we're

Joe:

still fairly young.

Joe:

I mean, I've got kids, but they're

Joe:

not at the point where, you know,

Joe:

they're, they're able to be hired.

Joe:

But, but it's interesting to even just,

Joe:

I'm here in the office and I've heard,

Joe:

you know, them say that before, Oh man,

Joe:

we're going to get kicked out as soon

Joe:

as you kids come in that it's, it's,

Joe:

it's, I think it's a rational thought.

Joe:

That just in people have in general,

Joe:

right, because they've seen it

Joe:

happen the wrong way so many times.

Joe:

So right now we haven't had to face that.

Joe:

I think the, I mean, some of

Joe:

the best advice I've seen is

Joe:

I had some friends in Atlanta.

Joe:

They own one of the big anhyzer

Joe:

most distributorship there.

Joe:

And, and it's, those are

Joe:

very clearly defined.

Joe:

Like there's even rules that like

Joe:

your kids are going to take this over.

Joe:

It stays in the family.

Joe:

So it's very, very obvious.

Joe:

Like the old school, you

Joe:

know, Augustus Bush rules.

Joe:

I mean, it stays in the family.

Joe:

Those old Anheuser Busch

Joe:

distributorships, they don't

Joe:

really get sold that often, but.

Joe:

What I saw this guy do, his name is Mr.

Joe:

Economers, is he made all, all four

Joe:

of his boys, like if you guys want

Joe:

to work here, you're going to start

Joe:

at the very bottom for like, not just

Joe:

like a couple weeks, like for a year.

Joe:

And you're literally going to be

Joe:

the guy who is stocking Bud Lights

Joe:

in the Publix's or the Kroger's.

Joe:

I mean, you're literally starting

Joe:

at the bottom as a stock boy and you

Joe:

got to work all the, all the way up.

Joe:

And so I, I, and that's an extreme

Joe:

example because everyone knew they

Joe:

were literally going to take their job.

Joe:

Like they were going to run the company.

Joe:

Just based on, on how it's

Joe:

always been been done.

Joe:

But I thought that was at least

Joe:

great where you're, you're making,

Joe:

you know, you were family members.

Joe:

If they are going to join you

Joe:

start at the bottom and a couple

Joe:

of them don't work there anymore.

Joe:

I will say that a couple of them just

Joe:

weren't a fit and really didn't love it.

Joe:

And and realize only one brother

Joe:

could actually CEO and, and wanted

Joe:

to go start their own company.

Joe:

So I, I always thought

Joe:

that was just a cool way.

Joe:

And I know they get a lot of respect.

Joe:

Is a company there in Atlanta, who's

Joe:

kind of at least done it right.

Joe:

But, but that, man, that part is tough.

Joe:

And those are the dynamics that, I

Joe:

mean, it's a big reason, you know,

Joe:

you're, you guys are focused on that

Joe:

because it is it is, it is tricky.

Joe:

And fortunately, you know, we haven't

Joe:

had to be there, but if that happens with

Joe:

either my kids or Luke's future kids sure.

Joe:

Is that going to make them work for it?

Joe:

You know, where we could look everyone in

Joe:

the company and say, man, they deserve.

Joe:

You know, this promotion or this

Joe:

role or whatever it might be.

Joe:

Yeah, I think, you know, at

Joe:

least in my eyes, it's one of

Joe:

the best ways to handle it.

John:

Yeah.

John:

Some, what some companies do is actually

John:

require the young generation that wants

John:

to come in to go work at a competitor

John:

or in the industry somewhere for a

John:

few years and get some experience

John:

before they come in the company.

John:

Yeah, so they aren't.

John:

Yeah, I started out deep beaking chicken.

John:

So that's another story too.

John:

Yeah, I know about

John:

working from the bottom.

Luke:

Yeah, that's the

Luke:

right way to do it that way.

Luke:

I mean, whoever it is, you know,

Luke:

they'll have respect from everybody

Luke:

else where it's not just an entitlement.

Luke:

It's actually working up the up the ranks.

Luke:

So that's Definitely proper way.

John:

Awesome.

John:

Okay.

John:

I want to watch our time here.

John:

We're at 3:35.

John:

So do you guys network with any

John:

other family business owners?

John:

Like, do you have a network

John:

of family businesses per se?

Joe:

I don't, but we're part of a

Joe:

group called C12 which is a Christian

Joe:

organization for like Christian CEOs.

Joe:

And there are quite a few of of

Joe:

family, actually a bunch of them.

Joe:

I'd say half of them just happened to be

Joe:

a family based business where it was a

Joe:

second, third generation has taken over

Joe:

or it's two brothers or husband and wife.

Joe:

So ironically, there's

Joe:

a lot of them in there.

Joe:

So we're, we're, we haven't, we didn't

Joe:

proactively seek that out, but it is

Joe:

ironic that we've all kind of attracted

Joe:

together and we meet once a month

Joe:

and, and literally take the whole day.

Joe:

And in a kind of a boardroom type

Joe:

of meeting, shut down the phones and

Joe:

there's always kind of an agenda or like

Joe:

something that we're going to learn.

Joe:

And then the rest of the time

Joe:

we just kind of air out issues.

Joe:

And a lot of times it's about family.

Joe:

You know, and how do I handle this?

Joe:

And and, and so it's been really,

Joe:

really cool to, to see that.

Joe:

And there's been some, there's been,

Joe:

you know, one in our group, the two

Joe:

brothers split up and they both, they were

Joe:

hitting, they were bumping heads so much.

Joe:

And they both had their own kind of

Joe:

specialty, if you will, and thought they

Joe:

were right and they literally decided

Joe:

to dissolve the company and start both

Joe:

started their own and they both did well.

Joe:

They both have, you know, super successful

Joe:

10 plus million dollar a year companies.

Joe:

And they're, you know, obviously

Joe:

both still friends and so it's been

Joe:

really cool to kind of see that.

John:

That's really cool.

John:

Funny that you mentioned

John:

two brothers like that.

John:

The two books that I've found that

John:

are written about family issues in

John:

business and how to deal with them

John:

are written by two brothers that

John:

are both second generation of the

John:

Olan Mills photography company.

John:

And and they, they each

John:

went their own way.

John:

They both now are running coaching

John:

businesses, but their own separate ones.

Joe:

So Olan Mills.

John:

Yeah, Olan Mills .So I was

John:

gonna ask where you go for guidance

John:

on, you know, how the family

John:

relationships impact the business.

John:

It sounds like that's that group,

John:

that networking group is, is

John:

what's filling that for you, right?

Joe:

That's been a good one.

Joe:

And then just like any relationship,

Joe:

it's just open communication.

Joe:

Right.

Joe:

And that's what we've been

Joe:

blessed because, I mean,

Joe:

Luke and I are best friends.

Joe:

We talk pretty much every day.

Joe:

And obviously we're, you know, fishing

Joe:

once a week and, you know, a lot of stuff

Joe:

you can kind of talk about in the boat.

Joe:

It's, it's, I don't know, something

Joe:

magical about being out in the water

Joe:

or out in the woods or somewhere and

Joe:

you just have open conversations.

Joe:

So, I mean, so much about

Joe:

it's just communicating.

Joe:

I mean, if you look at most divorces

Joe:

in America, it, It, everyone could say

Joe:

it was this or that, but it usually

Joe:

started with just bad communicating

Joe:

and not spending time together talking

Joe:

about issues that were on your mind.

Joe:

And so I, that would, I would

Joe:

urge people first to just, just

Joe:

talk about it and be honest.

Joe:

And there's been a couple things

Joe:

in C12 where we're all like, have

Joe:

you mentioned this to the person?

Joe:

And they're like, not yet.

Joe:

And they're like, well, that's

Joe:

probably the best place to start.

Joe:

But it could be tough.

Joe:

I mean, it could be

Joe:

tough to have, you know.

Joe:

tough conversations like that.

Joe:

So

Luke:

yeah, just being as Joe

Luke:

mentioned before, and that's a good

Luke:

thing about in many cases, siblings

Luke:

is that it's not that the festering

Luke:

is really where the damage happens.

Luke:

And that seemed to happen at least,

Luke:

at least in our experience, in my

Luke:

experience, it seemed to happen more,

Luke:

it happened more in the political or in

Luke:

the corporate environment where you're

Luke:

kind of afraid to kind of step on toes

Luke:

or to be honest and, and forthright.

Luke:

Whereas your brother, like, oh, he is,

Luke:

you know I can just, he'll be mad up

Luke:

if I say this for a little bit, but

Luke:

we'll get over it and, and get past it.

Luke:

And and I, and I think that's

Luke:

been a, a, a big, a big help.

Luke:

And also we have different, very different

Luke:

personalities where a lot of the stuff

Luke:

that he likes doing, he's best at, it's

Luke:

the opposite for me and, and vice versa.

Luke:

So we've been, we've been blessed

Luke:

in, in that as well, where our, our

Luke:

kind of likes and, and and, and core

Luke:

abilities are, are kind of on different,

Luke:

different sides of the spectrum

John:

and complimentary.

Luke:

Correct.

Luke:

Yep.

John:

Excellent.

John:

Excellent.

John:

Guys.

John:

Thank you so much.

John:

This has been huge.

Joe:

Absolutely.

Joe:

We appreciate it.

Joe:

And I'm, I'm sure in a couple of years

Joe:

we'll have more to share and and who

Joe:

knows what, what, what will happen.

Joe:

I guess we won't be bringing on any

Joe:

other family members, but you never

Joe:

know, you know, mom's tried to get a

Joe:

job and we said, no way, because they

Joe:

way over, way over qualified, of course.

Joe:

So, yeah.

John:

All right.

John:

Awesome.

John:

Well, you guys inspired me.

John:

I contacted you back in 2014 and you

John:

got, you were kind enough to give me a

John:

copy of your basic, building a business

John:

online course that you were doing and I

John:

just really got interested in marketing.

Joe:

Keep at it.

John:

All righty.

John:

Well, whenever we get

John:

together, I look forward to it.

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